Archive: 18 posts

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So, let's imagine you had double thermo capacity. How would you use or abuse it? 1) Double the length/size of your level? 2) Double the stickers/decorations in your normal-sized level? 3) A mixture of the above? 4) Something different? What could be achieved that we haven't seen yet?

2009-07-17 21:54:00 Author: MrsSpookyBuz Posts: 1492

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I`m pretty sure I`ve never had to cut the length of any of my levels short due to thermometer troubles. I tend to make fairly simple platforming levels that don`t take forever to get through so by the time I`ve laid down the basics of the level I have loads of thermo left and then just work on polishing it all up. Complex objects are pretty much beyond me so I avoid them. Does wonders for my thermometer! Where I have run into problems though is with stickers and edges etc. So with my double thermo I`d pretty much use it all to spruce up my levels visually.

2009-07-17 22:02:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096

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What a nice, straightforward reply. You are lovliness in disguise.

2009-07-17 22:06:00 Author: MrsSpookyBuz Posts: 1492

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YES! double thermo. I found that if u put alot of stuff all in one place it fills up the thermo fast, cause i got one level, with pretty much nothing in it, but the thermo is overheating, with double thermo I would add sooooooo much more detail to levels, stickers and lots of different materials. lol.

2009-07-17 22:11:00 Author: springs86 Posts: 785

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I somehow feel that more limitations might help me more than more freedom. I like to find workaround and think that it easier to be creative if you are restricted to a certain, in some ways to small, amount of space and objects. I liked that in the first beta; you only had a few materials to work with, yet still it was perfectly possible to create great levels. The limitations made you think about clever alternatives that you wouldn't even think about if you had complete freedom to do whatever you like with as many materials as you like. Mind you, I'd welcome more thermometer space. I've come close the limit a few times. Switching to a more efficient set of switches/logic gates has helped a bit. (Thin, triangular switches that have multiple uses etc.)

2009-07-17 22:15:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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I couldn't double the detail and effects without suffering from even further frame rate losses than I already have always had. For such a powerful game engine, on such a powerful piece of hardware, I'm still amazed that I can even cause slowdown like I'm trying to port Metal Slug to an NES lol I would most definitely make longer levels. Everything I make is cut short, and I refuse to compromise on detail, looks and complexity just to make room for some filler platforming sections... it would allow me maintain what I already have going in terms of design style and priorities, but expand on it. With my last two levels, I couldn't avoid having to quickly wrap everything up and was so disappointed when I'd get down to the last centimeter of thermometer, struggling to get a nice looking scoreboard area in without feeling too abrupt, anti-climactic and rushed... both times I've had so many ideas and sequences in mind that would have filled a whole other level. Not sure how popular 3 hour long levels would be, or how prone they would be the load in on the server but I would be much happier with it myself. Multi-path, non-linear, and open-world design would be the order of the day with more thermometer too. Gameplay-changing designs that hog thermometer would benefit greatly as well. You would be able to do these things, and still manage a lengthy satisfying level design, and a high quality look... no more "one or the other" stuff. Imagine if you could have a wex-style Pinball mini-game in the middle of your level, and not just in a level by itself. ...but honestly, for long epics - just committing to the idea of a two or three level simultaneous release, is more than enough thermometer space. Temple of the eye 1 & 2 by Zep of Led is a perfect example of how to do this. Then again, staring down the barrel of another 1 to 200 hours is daunting to say the least. EDIT: You're right, Syroc. LBP's limitations are part of what makes it's design philosophy so great, and what people acheive with it so amazing to us. Everything you see that impresses you is an ingenious workaround, and an example of grace under fire. You really only need play aer0blue's teknofortress and tomb of razhoteps levels to see that there really is alot of room to work with.

2009-07-17 22:35:00 Author: Unknown User

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I'd rather get no thermometer. Cause we all have this space and you just filled a little bit of the space you supposed to.

2009-07-17 22:50:00 Author: Unknown User

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If we have immense slowdown from people emitting a million tiny sponges a second which fills up the single thermometer we have now, people doing that with the capacity for double the emitters would most certainly cause a crash. The thermometer isn't just a LittleBigPlanet limit, it's a Playstation 3 limit as well. Unless coding solutions were found, I don't see it happening. I could explain a workaround to the current system, but that's another thread on it's own. Since it is a hypothetical question though, ignore the Serious Sam first paragraph. I would make ridiculously complicated contraptions. I'm pushing the limit with AI for the game Battleship, but with a second thermometer I could go to the moon and back metaphorically. I could add difficulty levels and different themes and super special effects and many many more technical details.

2009-07-17 23:13:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325

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I would totally do a bigger and better adventure style level. With Sack's In The City I had to cut ideas + an entire boss. With Sack's on The Beach right now it's cut frenzy -- my scope was a bit too large. I recovered my old boss idea though. .

2009-07-17 23:53:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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I don't think I would need double thermo, but 25% more would be nice. It would really help me add more detail to some of my existing levels. With double, I think I would try something just full of crazy effects.

2009-07-17 23:55:00 Author: smasher Posts: 641

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If we have immense slowdown from people emitting a million tiny sponges a second which fills up the single thermometer we have now, people doing that with the capacity for double the emitters would most certainly cause a crash. The thermometer isn't just a LittleBigPlanet limit, it's a Playstation 3 limit as well. Unless coding solutions were found, I don't see it happening. I could explain a workaround to the current system, but that's another thread on it's own. Since it is a hypothetical question though, ignore the Serious Sam first paragraph. I would make ridiculously complicated contraptions. I'm pushing the limit with AI for the game Battleship, but with a second thermometer I could go to the moon and back metaphorically. I could add difficulty levels and different themes and super special effects and many many more technical details. Yes, exactly... alot of people ask for thinghs like water material, and being able to upload your own music, not realizing how much strain rendered liquid would put on the engine, and how long it would take for levels to load in while you download each new song (or how laggy it would be if it were streamed). The only way double everything would probably work, is if levels streamed in with real time loading, like Soul Reaver on PS1... but again, lag would be ten times worse. That I would like to see though... people like you putting it to use in it's fullest potential. Having the space and memory to create what would in essence be physical objects acting as written code... I would totally do a bigger and better adventure style level. With Sack's In The City I had to cut ideas + an entire boss. With Sack's on The Beach right now it's cut frenzy -- my scope was a bit too large. I recovered my old boss idea though. . ...and stuff like this. Full RPG-esque worlds, with lots of room for brain-powered NPC's and non-linear, multi-path environments that don't have to scale back on visuals. I don't think I would need double thermo, but 25% more would be nice. It would really help me add more detail to some of my existing levels. With double, I think I would try something just full of crazy effects. ...that sounds about right. Last two projects, all I would have really needed is enough for another long, well developed segment, space for a few more emitters, or a possible vehicle sequence or something, and not necessarily enough room for twice the level.

2009-07-18 00:15:00 Author: Unknown User

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I would re-create Exodus: Ultima III. I could also combine Splat Invaders Saga and Splat Invaders II into one huge level with Vertigo thrown in-between.

2009-07-18 01:27:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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If there were Double Thermo, I would never be able to finish one level -.- I make levels really slow, y'see. This will be both a blessing and a curse :<

2009-07-18 01:30:00 Author: AwesomePossum Posts: 446

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I would add some more stuff to most of my levels. Especially Journey Through the Dragon's Dojo. I had much more ideas for it, but due to the thermo filling up I had to scrap them. Also I would use more stickers to spice up the detail in my levels.

2009-07-18 09:42:00 Author: lk9988 Posts: 1077

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The only way double everything would probably work, is if levels streamed in with real time loading That is a good idea, but there is one huge problem. If someone has a logic gate positioned way far away from what it is actually triggering, or if something has set up their level in a way that something builds up before the player actually gets to it, it won't actually work. MediaMolecule would have to set it up to stream everything near the player and all the wires connected to anything near the player and any objects near the ends of the wires. Not only that, we would need an option to load certain sections in advance. It would be almost like the "zone" tool of the camera where you set when it activates. Everything within the zone would be loaded beforehand. I believe that the way LittleBigPlanet is set up now, everything is computed all the time, no matter where the player is, but only the things that are on-screen get rendered.

2009-07-18 21:19:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325

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Obviously Deja Boom would be ONE Level, and so would the collector's lair and the collector, I think I would just do normal levels with EPIC EPIC boss fights.

2009-07-18 21:33:00 Author: LuckyShot Posts: 713

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I would combine my Aperture Science trilogy into one level. I think it would just barely fit, and it'd be an epicly long journey (I'd hope for about an hour to get through the whole thing). I salivate just thinking about the possibility. Edit: Sorry Ninja, I snuck in there...

2009-07-18 21:48:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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^good call. Very good call. I think Thegide's "[Metal Gear Solid] Shadow Moses: Site B" level would have benefitted greatly from extra thermo. Whereas MM was able to do the mission acts separately, and then have a full thermo to work with when it came time for Rex, Thegide had (well... chose) to cram an incredibly epic mech MG boss into an incredibly epic MG level. I'm still amazed at the production value of everything, and that he managed to be close to on par with MM in a combination level... but it's a case where I know that the blocks used for the boss would have made the level even better, and a FULL thermometer for the boss would have made it 10 times more fantastic and more developed than it already was. EDIT: no worries, I resnuck in and changed it to "very" when I realized who I was pointing at lol

2009-07-18 21:49:00 Author: Unknown User

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