Archive: 40 posts

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I just got a few nice messages on my Mars Attacks levels from someone saying how much he liked them, and that he checks everyday to see if part 2 was ready, and when would it be etc etc. I showed him Mars Attacks II (or what little there is) and then he said did I want to play his level. So I go in and check out his level with him and find this...... http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr285/grantosuk/APhoto_1-4.jpg http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=540&pictureid=4848 The ship even flies past in the background, my example is actually quite bad, because the bridge extends once the ship is past. Then he copied my pods coming past the same section later on. http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr285/grantosuk/APhoto_2-4.jpg http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=540&pictureid=4849 Ahem....!!! Even the text bubble says almost the same thing as mine http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=540&pictureid=4850 Its getting uncanny He had the audacity to show me this. At the end I said its just a copy of my level, he replied no its inspiration, I said plagiarism. He asked me if he should delete it and I replied there was little I could do either way but it would be nice if he added a note that it was my ideas in the first place. I'm still a little overwhelmed by it. Me and NinjaMcWiz just got done playing it. I think I am actually going to ask him to delete it. Its a blatant copy of a level that took me 6 weeks to build and tweak. I don't mind people using the ideas, but this takes it to far. His PSN is gamedaddy43. Its the only level he has published.

2009-07-10 14:00:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754

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I'm all about inspiration, and homage... the style of misdirection and environmental puzzles in The Ancient Castle by _OIL influenced CENTURION24's Breakout! level, and I straight up remade Breakout as my own thing after asking him if I could... but in both cases, the inspiration was credited, and the creators went to every length possible to try and do something original, quality and personal. Inspiration is taking creative license with an idea. Jay-Z did 22 Two's, Canibus did 33 Three's, so I did 44 Fours I posted that it was a rip off a bunch of times in the comments, since he deleted my first one. Perhaps I'm overreacting, but you guys know how I feel about X-Sonni-X style plagiarism and I never want to see something like what happened with AAAlone again... maybe he is legitimately inspired, but yeah, he should credit you in the description and in the level somewhere... and at least try to make it his own thing. It wouldn't hurt to have an equal or better standard of quality in doing it. The main thing is that you spent over a month on it, and barely made it to page 1 on your last day... and this level's close to a hundred plays in a matter of hours, a great heart ratio, and full of comments that say "amazing level" or "can't wait for part 2" when your part 2 is on the way, and will probably end up with you being cited as the thief. I don't trust him either, regardless of what he says... asking to see your sequel seems like a way to get a heads up and quickly steal your ideas, and create them in a rushed and sloppy way before you can publish them yourself. Since he deleted my comments, he obviously doesn't want people to know where it came from.

2009-07-10 14:11:00 Author: Unknown User

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I think it would be nice for you if you let him keep it with the note that you originally made it. Your choice anyway, at least he asked for permission not like some crazed psycho who steals on the spot and never replies to pms :kz:

2009-07-10 14:11:00 Author: AwesomePossum Posts: 446

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He has added inspiried by gruntosuk in the description. I'm worried about part 2 as well now Ninja, I'll show anyone what I'm working on if they ask, this ones been a month in the making already and its only 50% done, I will be angry if a worse version appears in the next week.

2009-07-10 14:13:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754

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He asked me if he should delete it and I replied there was little I could do either way but it would be nice if he added a note that it was my ideas in the first place. I think I am actually going to ask him to delete it. How about you try that and see his response before the pitchforks mob gets their hands on this? I mean, that would be the real judge of what's going on here. He's offered that to you, take him up on his offer and see if it was a bluff to mkae himself look good or if he meant it.

2009-07-10 14:17:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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At the end of the day, he's using my ideas in a blatant rip off. As Ninja said, people are playing and hearting the level at a fast rate when nothing he did was his own. I had quite a bit of creators block after finishing Siberia, and poured a lot of effort into it, trying to make things as different to Siberia as possible. Inspired by is putting it to lightly, its a copy basically. Play my level, play his. Most of the speech is even copied. Adding three words to the end of a description is'nt good enough.

2009-07-10 14:20:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754

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He didn't add in credit in the description until I pestered him to add credit to Gruntos in the description and level.... those comments have been deleted now as well, and were much more nicely put than my original "This is a rip off of Mars Attacks by GruntosUK" comments. The level appears to be gone now. Good. I'm glad it didn't end up with 30,000 plays and 200 comments calling him a genius. Chalk one W up for the 1 man mob.

2009-07-10 14:21:00 Author: Unknown User

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This is a bit of a disturbing trend. Thankfully most of the stuff I do is complex enough that if someone were to copy it this way, I'd be more impressed than annoyed. Unfortunately, I feel that even if we bring this to MM's attention it'll be a very low priority issue. The best option for now is for the community to police its own...

2009-07-10 14:34:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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Welcome to my world Grantos. I am mortified that this happened to you and understand the feelings that go along with seeing something like this with your own eyes. To be honest I have not felt the same about LBP since this happened to me. I will say that no matter how many times I tried to call it flattery I didn't really feel comfortable until sonni removed the copied dragon head from his level. I would like to have removed the head from sonni but that would have been just plain mean! It's the cheek of the guy that gets me in this case. Unbelievable. You have masses of support and the brilliance of NinjaMic behind you. Icey

2009-07-10 14:36:00 Author: IceMaiden Posts: 1057

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I just sent him a message - "To gamedaddy43 Subject Good thanks for taking that level down. it's fine to be inspired, but you should really try to make something all your own and original that's only kind of like what inspired you, and not just copy it exactly. i bet if you spend a couple weeks on your level and really make it different, but familiar, gruntos will love it and people will really respect your work. also, since you were able to remake stuff like his level, at all, it shows that you're able to make cool stuff if you apply yourself" That should bring it all full circle, and leave it as a not-so-bitter experience.

2009-07-10 14:38:00 Author: Unknown User

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This is a bit of a disturbing trend. Thankfully most of the stuff I do is complex enough that if someone were to copy it this way, I'd be more impressed than annoyed. Unfortunately, I feel that even if we bring this to MM's attention it'll be a very low priority issue. The best option for now is for the community to police its own... I loved it and approve it I just sent him a message - "To gamedaddy43 Subject Good thanks for taking that level down. it's fine to be inspired, but you should really try to make something all your own and original that's only kind of like what inspired you, and not just copy it exactly. i bet if you spend a couple weeks on your level and really make it different, but familiar, gruntos will love it and people will really respect your work. also, since you were able to remake stuff like his level, at all, it shows that you're able to make cool stuff if you apply yourself" That should bring it all full circle, and leave it as a not-so-bitter experience. Yes, that's the best you can say Ninja. Not every bad experience has to leave a bad taste in mouth. Actually you said well, if he managed to copy Grantos' stuff, that means he has quite some skills. Maybe he's only lazy and needs some motivation. By the way he was kind enough to not be stubborn, he asked permission, he added the credit and removed the level without being a P.I.T.A. if I understood it well enough.

2009-07-10 14:44:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

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The level has been taken down now. I just sent him a message saying that while I appreciated the fact he thought my level was good enough for him to make a version himself, I was a little unhappy that he'd copied it almost straight. I added that I'd help him in anyway I could to make something of his own. At least its come to an amicable end. Thanks for the support everyone, but this issue seems to be getting more and more common.

2009-07-10 14:50:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754

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Yeah, I may have reacted swiftly and harshly, but I feel that even with his humble disposition as it stands now, after about a 1,000 hearts he'd probably get quite a rush out of it and look at things in a different light. "I assure you I had no intention of being either harsh or cruel in my treatment of the soldier in question. My sole purpose was to try and to restore him some appreciation of his obligation as a man, and as a soldier. If one can shame a coward I felt, one might help him regain his self-respect. This was on my mind. Now I freely admit that my method was wrong, but I hope you can understand my motive. And will accept this explanation, and this apology." - George S. Patton

2009-07-10 14:56:00 Author: Unknown User

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the soldier that patton shamed had shell shock. anyway it's good that it got sorted.

2009-07-10 15:53:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096

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Analogy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy) PTSD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptsd) Obvious man is obvious.

2009-07-10 16:06:00 Author: Unknown User

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Interesting.... I wish someone would blatantly copy Splat Invaders or Tiger Woods Minigolf. I'm starting to feel left out. WHAT'S WRONG WITH MY STUFF??? AM I NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO COPY?? Don't answer that....

2009-07-10 16:26:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Maybe the guy has shell shock! I'll copy your levels Cabbage. They don`t look very complicated anyway

2009-07-10 17:58:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096

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Hey, I'll have you know it took 60 switches and 10 emitters just to make the bovine antigravity chamber work! Turning a cow into burger ain't easy.

2009-07-10 19:58:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Well - I sort of copied your floaty rocket thingies from Splat Invaders in my CS4..... I didn't think you'd mind terribly..... sorry but I did change the material and made them stepping stones up.... is that different enough?

2009-07-10 20:03:00 Author: Morgana25 Posts: 5983

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Hey, that's true! Wow, I thought I had seen that before but I couldn't figure out where. I think it was Splat Invaders II. Wow, I inspired! I'll sleep well tonight. Hmmm.... floating the balloon in "Up up & away in sky town" is an aweful like bovine cow floating.... I wonder if.... Naw.

2009-07-10 20:47:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Interesting.... I wish someone would blatantly copy Splat Invaders or Tiger Woods Minigolf. I'm starting to feel left out. WHAT'S WRONG WITH MY STUFF??? AM I NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO COPY?? Don't answer that.... Awwwww there there.. If it makes you feel better, remember those nifty emer lifts that whoosh by in my level I have in progress? Those are "sorta like" the floaty rocket thingies Morgana mentioned. ..oh and those workbench sort of things at the beginning used a 3d sticker like you did in Starship Troopers, except I used a different sticker and put it off the edge at an angle more like a control panel. That make ya feel better?? Kinda sorta?

2009-07-10 20:52:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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That's true.... and I also have noticed SEVERAL levels that use shaped wood. "I" use shaped wood! Back on topic... I can't imagine the guy who copied Grant's level did it maliceously - otherwise, why would he show it to him? I'll bet there's a lot of copying going on, and the creators not even considering how the original author feels about it.

2009-07-10 23:03:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Again.... this type of thing us annoying and unacceptable. One of the reasons I don't like to play other levels when I'm creating is that I sometimes come across ideas or objects and their implementations that are almost exactly what I'm currently working on in several of my levels (though rarely). I just don't want any creator coming back with accusations of me trying to rip them off when it's not the case. As I've said before, the same idea can be conjured by more than one person without having any knowledge of the other person's revelation of the same thing. It happens all the time. Heck, the photo with the blown out area looks like it could be exactly the same idea that I have in one of my KZ2 levels I'm working on... though I can't say for sure as I haven't played your level. Mine actually blows up leaving a blasted open area... and I'm not sure if your's does or is already blown up before the player encounters that part of your level. Anyways, I'm sure you see my point. That being said... this certainly seems like a blatant rip-off of your level and specific events and objects in it. Shame on the person who plagiarised your work! Shame shame shame!

2009-07-10 23:09:00 Author: Rustbukkit Posts: 1737

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That's true.... and I also have noticed SEVERAL levels that use shaped wood. "I" use shaped wood! LMAO - I noticed a level the other day that was just like mine - terrible!! I used shaped wood as well - to shape Icey's Snow Queen's thrupnies! (No, not chocolate ) In all seriousness though, I've also tried to make my levels SO complicated, they would be impossible to copy.... maybe... I'm really glad this got sorted so quickly. Rhy

2009-07-10 23:11:00 Author: Rhyfelwr Posts: 606

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That's true.... and I also have noticed SEVERAL levels that use shaped wood. "I" use shaped wood! Back on topic... I can't imagine the guy who copied Grant's level did it maliciously - otherwise, why would he show it to him? I'll bet there's a lot of copying going on, and the creators not even considering how the original author feels about it. Oh yeah.. back on topic! Sorry folks! :blush: I feel bad that Grant had to go through that and as you said, I doubt the guy copying meant any harm. Especially since he seemed to have showed Grant his copy out of respect. I just can't imagine going to the trouble of copying to the extent like it shows in those pics as it looks almost exact! It's one thing to be directly or indirectly inspired, but wow.. that was pretty blatant. Glad it got resolved!

2009-07-10 23:26:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Grantos: I just read your response to my post. Probably didn't make myself very clear. I mean, that would be the real judge of what's going on here. I really should read back what I write to check for these ambiguities. Sorry mate. I wasn't, in any way, disputing whether it was a rip off. I'm sure it was a very close copy. "what was going here" was supposed to be referring to his intentions. My point was that the story you described didn't sound like his intentions were to steal from you or hurt you. This was based upon the fact that he showed you it and then responded to your reaction by asking if he should delete it.

2009-07-10 23:28:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I can see this being a fairly young person doing it as an act of admiration, almost a "Daddy, Daddy, look what I made! I want to be just like you when I grow up." sort of thing. If he showed you the level, made no action against you, and willingly removed the level, I don't think there is really a problem. It's great that you got so lucky, having someone be "inspired" by your work and then follow it up by actually respecting your wishes, a characteristic not common of people on the internet. I would be flattered if someone copied something of mine, and then told me about it. I would ask for them to put "inspiration from..." or something along those lines, as you did, and as he complied. I think this is a win-win situation for all involved. You get the knowledge that your levels inspire people to create, and he gets the experience of having created a fantastic level closely based off of your ideas.

2009-07-11 00:04:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325

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at least it was just one guy coping your level.. i have about 13 copy cats lol

2009-07-11 08:56:00 Author: CENTURION24 Posts: 266

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I was going to make my own thread, but I figured I can just tack onto the end of this one... Here's blatant copying, ha ha: http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1263/hpim0337m.jpg In all, I found 19 copies of my level, all but two of which decided not to change a thing. There may be more versions that changed the name - I just searched for difficulty selector. I guess that's what I get for making it copyable? Should've learned from AAAlone, lol. I noticed that there were 2 of them on cool pages (4 and 5), so I asked them to remove them, but now that I see there are at least 19, I think, "why bother?" I'm not that upset because it's not a real level, but seriously are people that desperate for attention? Edit: We're up to 23... And one of the author's deleted my comment of me asking them to remove it, lol.

2009-07-11 15:14:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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I think that this is probably the most blatant copying that I've seen. lol. At least it came to a friendly resolution though. It could have been a lot uglier. The thing that blows my mind is that the person who copied... well, they were kinda good. Why not make something original?! It boggles the mind!

2009-07-11 16:10:00 Author: xkappax Posts: 2569

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In all, I found 19 copies of my level thats what happens when you make you level copyable duh. You made your own bed on this one

2009-07-11 16:36:00 Author: CENTURION24 Posts: 266

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My friend, he is either emulating your skills and ideas, or he's just being an **** and is duplicating your work. Get him to delete it

2009-07-11 16:36:00 Author: KoRnDawwg Posts: 1424

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thats what happens when you make you level copyable duh. You made your own bed on this one Well, you know, I was trying to make it so that people could see how it works - hence the copyable level. If that's not the point of making a level copyable, then I must have missed something... I can give them a prize, but then they can't edit it (i.e. take it apart and see how it works). Anyways... Grantos, did he end up deleting the level or is he going to credit you for the idea?

2009-07-11 16:43:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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thats what happens when you make you level copyable duh. You made your own bed on this one The "duh" part was unnecessary, even though I do agree with your point about making levels copyable. It does bring risk, and people are idiots. Nobody uses it to learn, just to get trophies.

2009-07-11 16:57:00 Author: KoRnDawwg Posts: 1424

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On the subject of copying copyable levels vs copying uncopyable levels: Putting an creation in the public eye makes it open to being copied by others, whether you allow it to be digitally copied or not. In the latter case the creation can be manually copied. The argument that you should "expect it" if you allow it to be copyable falls down when you consider that you are publishing into a medium where copying is rife either way. You should expect to be copied either way, considering the medium in which you are working. It's still wanton plagiarism either way and the original creator is still a victim.

2009-07-11 17:13:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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It really is a shame that this sort of thing goes on, i mean i know the "share" part is right in the description. but some people just take it too far. I think there should be a separate area for level creators who have proven themselves to be great creators. The only problem is if it was regulated by hearts then h4hers would get in and if it was a hand selection by MM they would have more work to do then they do now and nobody wants that. At least there is the satisfation of knowing that no copied level will ever beat the original.

2009-07-11 17:15:00 Author: redmagus Posts: 667

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Sorry to hear about this Grant. Considering your masterful skill level at creating, there are very few who could pull off a decent copy of your work. Which means the vast majority would wind up on the heap, so to speak. But that's not the issue here. It's the uncivilized nature of such an act, which I find deplorable. I hope this gets sorted in your favor. Rick

2009-07-14 07:16:00 Author: RickRock_777 Posts: 1567

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Inspired, really? It looks more to me like he went into your level with a notepad in-hand, sketched everything, wrote every text bubble down and went into Create Mode. Hate people who do this...

2009-07-14 07:30:00 Author: brnxblze Posts: 1318

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Wow! I guess I'm a little late to this party. I have to search these forums more often. I suppose you all know how I feel about this sort of thing. When your level gets coppied it's like a punch in the gut. I was amazed at how deeply affected I was when I found Moving Parts had been duped! In the end those who copy demonstrate an appaling lack of creativity, and taste. Is it your own fault if you leave it copiable? I suppose it is, but I prefer to think your mistake is in overestimating the quality of character in the LBP community. Perhaps our cynicism is dulled by frequenting this wonderful forum on LBPcentral. Whatever the reason, you only make that mistake once. To be able to truly "share" a level- leave it open (so folks can disect and learn from it) without fear of being ripped off, would be wonderful. Unfortunately this is not possible unless the population is likeminded with respect to plaigarism and right of authorship. Unfortunately LBP is contaminated by folks who lack the scruples (the common decency) to respect the effort that you put into your level. These are the same folks who waste our time with hack levels, H4H, random one-stars, and useless comments. Some are kids who just don't know better, and some know better but are just scum. They're out there in droves. They won't go away. Don't you forget it. Remember also that LBPCentral is here. There are some good guys too.

2009-07-14 22:18:00 Author: AAAlone Posts: 71

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Very well stated AA! Bravo!

2009-07-15 01:09:00 Author: RickRock_777 Posts: 1567

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