Archive: 17 posts

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(i wasn't sure if there was another thread for this... i couldnt find one, so..) . . . I brought my PS3 over to a relative's house and they did not have an HDMI cable or LCD screen like i'm used to using. There was a part of one of my levels that was almost unplayable because of how dark it was... it looks fine on mine, but it called to my attention that some people have darker TVs. I imagine, rather than turn up the brightness on their TV (to play my level), some people might just give a low star rating and a "Lousy" or some such tag.. The level im working on now has a bunch of dark areas that are crucial to the storyline and mood.. I'm a little uncertain of how to tackle this Darkness vs. other peoples TVs situation. I have a couple ideas.. like giving an option at the beginning of a level, or publishing 2 versions, but... I'd like to get someone else's take on this. How dark is too dark? How much attention should i pay to people with older TVs? How much artistic vision should be sacrificed, to cater to everyone?

2009-07-01 03:09:00 Author: Unknown User

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yeah personally i dont like levels where it is too dark to see generally levels such as these dont have much to see anyway (not insulting your levels, i have a pretty good tv so this is directed at ppl who make it too dark on purpose or just dont know the difference) Maybe you could put a warning in the levels description if your really worried about it you could make a switch at the beggining for good tv dark or bad tv dark, unless the darkness is one of your crucial gameplay elements. Too dark in my oppinion is when you cant see anything i wouldnt worry about it too much, maybe you could get some people to playtest before you release to get oppinions from different people with different tvs

2009-07-01 04:43:00 Author: redmagus Posts: 667

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Yeah, it's a tough thing to take into consideration... also to note is display size. I've switched accounts before and seen opening credit logos that appear differently from setting to setting and I can never see some people's logos that are obviously intended fo wide screen displays. IMO... and this is coming from someone who is all about vision and personal expression, don't compromise aesthetics, direction, mood and atmophere... darkness and light are powerful things in terms of expressing yourself visually, and if you truly have a clear vision in your mind of how something should look and feel, then it has to be so. Others may tell you quite the opposite though, and from an industry perspective, you want to lowball everything for insurance reasons... gamma all the way up, always bright, accessible for all settings and models, and all audiences. This ensures the highest probability of pleasing the most people, and it depends on your priority really, but IMO that high probability of pleasing a large group results in never being truly amazing to anyone... including yourself. Anyone who sees it as you intend it, will probably appreciate the way you want.

2009-07-01 05:00:00 Author: Unknown User

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you can just put 2 sponges at the begining of the level, each with a global lighting tool, one has the original darkness and the other has lbrighter lighting.

2009-07-01 06:48:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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you can just put 2 sponges at the begining of the level, each with a global lighting tool, one has the original darkness and the other has lbrighter lighting. Not a bad thought... but this won't work if you are using the GLT throughout your level to change the lighting in different environtments or rooms. I'm with NinjaMicWZ on this... I won't compromise my levels for anyone's TV settings.

2009-07-01 06:55:00 Author: Rustbukkit Posts: 1737

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One thing I've found pretty successful is to use hidden non-foggy LED's and spotlights to light up the floor and some walls strategically - so it keeps the dark "look" but lights up certain areas to have it playable. For an example of this check out "Splat Invaders II: The Caverns of Splat". I tested the results on players with older TV's and they said it was effective (AND it looks pretty darn cool). The idea is to ONLY light the areas that are required to be seen to play, without lighting the background or other objects. (by the way, the trick of using spotlights for this is to use HUGE off-screen spotlights that are dim and light up just the sections of floor necessary to show the player where they're walking)

2009-07-01 14:12:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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To me it's pretty simple. Think about people with darker TVs and design your levels around that fact if you aim at maximum enjoyment. The reality is that HDTVs penetration right now is about 35% (well, in NA). In theory we could then say that at least 35% of PS3 owners are actually playing on a recent HDTV. This is probably wrong. If you own a PS3 there's higher chances that you are someone in the 35% of households having HDTV. Let's say there's 50% of PS3 owners that might play on low res TVs. All in all, my point is that I think there's a great bunch of people playing on shi.., I mean, old TVs. If you want to make your level friendly to the most people, you should consider to not make the dark parts too dark. .

2009-07-01 18:04:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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I personnally don't like it when there's parts of a level in which you can't see. I would just add a magic mouth at the beginning saying to turn up the brightness of your TV if it's dark or at standard def.

2009-07-01 18:32:00 Author: lk9988 Posts: 1077

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This is the reason we have a gamma option under our start menus in this game. That setting is specifically there because of the different black levels of televisions. I think if a person has tried your level and couldn't see it, they've probably played other levels or the story mode (as there are dark story mode levels) and had the same problem. I wouldn't even worry about it at all. If you must, leave a section in the description saying to turn up your gamma if you can't see the level well.

2009-07-01 18:38:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325

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I play on an old TV, and actually, my old tv makes my levels substantially brighter than they would be on an hdtv...so when I play at a friend's house, my level looks way too dark as well...

2009-07-01 18:54:00 Author: Theap Pleman Posts: 670

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To me it's pretty simple. Think about people with darker TVs and design your levels around that fact if you aim at maximum enjoyment. The reality is that HDTVs penetration right now is about 35% (well, in NA). In theory we could then say that at least 35% of PS3 owners are actually playing on a recent HDTV. This is probably wrong. If you own a PS3 there's higher chances that you are someone in the 35% of households having HDTV. Let's say there's 50% of PS3 owners that might play on low res TVs. All in all, my point is that I think there's a great bunch of people playing on shi.., I mean, old TVs. If you want to make your level friendly to the most people, you should consider to not make the dark parts too dark. . I'm actually not sure any of this can really be attributed just to model. I heard early on that plenty of people with HD TV's have trouble with dark settings... I remember this coming up when I talked to kappa about her having two versions of Centralia... I'm on a crappy old SD TV, and I have no trouble with it at all, and always keep my gamma at default... only in levels where it's pitch black or hazy with NO lighting whatsoever anywhere else. Even then I can still make everything out. I think it just depends on what people have their brightness, contrast, color etc set at... and lots of people have trouble with that on regular TV's let alone high end ones. Vision probably comes into play here too.

2009-07-02 02:21:00 Author: Unknown User

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In the past I`ve probably made levels too dark specifically to get a better effect from the LEDs. I usually find that making it a notch or two lighter won`t really do you too much harm. But tbh you can only ever really make levels on your own TV, so just make what you think is right. It`s entirely possible to make a level too dark and I`m sure the folks here at LBPC will be the first to tell you if it is.

2009-07-02 02:38:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096

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the part i tested earlier (that was too dark on the older tv) was in my His Mind Game level.. (the part is located past door number 3 near the beginning).. i think what im working on now is a little brighter, so.. for now, i'm keeping with my current direction i'll definitely be keeping this concept in mind though at least there are options if i choose not to lighten it.. likely, i will attempt to ask for some opinions.. that was a good idea. i might also attempt to bring it to another tv to witness it first hand prior to publishing it this is similar to the whole widescreen TV vs square TV issue.... hmmm.....

2009-07-02 03:15:00 Author: Unknown User

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I'm actually not sure any of this can really be attributed just to model. I heard early on that plenty of people with HD TV's have trouble with dark settings... I remember this coming up when I talked to kappa about her having two versions of Centralia... I'm on a crappy old SD TV, and I have no trouble with it at all, and always keep my gamma at default... only in levels where it's pitch black or hazy with NO lighting whatsoever anywhere else. Even then I can still make everything out. I think it just depends on what people have their brightness, contrast, color etc set at... and lots of people have trouble with that on regular TV's let alone high end ones. Vision probably comes into play here too. I didn't consider that there are bad TVsets and I didn't factor that they can also be badly configured (image settings). Come to think of it, it's better to not mind if someone doesn't see right in your level because there's so many possibilities of different image quality out there. So yeah, I guess I retract what I said earlier .

2009-07-02 04:34:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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High end CRTs from a few years ago will likely have better colour depth than the bottom-end HD TVs. This is a general issue with variance in quality and settings and there is nothing you can do about it really. Ccubbage's idea is fantastic, I don't know how I didn't think of this before. It's solved a couple of problems for me, but can't really solve the overall issue of not knowing how your level will show on other people's set-ups. Best bet is to get your hands on a THX optimiser, optimise your TV settings, and then make sure your game plays OK with the gamma turned down slightly (as a bit of a "margin for error"). Then get it in the showcase here when you publish and specifically ask for advice on this issue, and see how others respond to it. After that, you will have to rely on people being smart enough to adjust their settings. Thats as good as you can do.

2009-07-02 09:10:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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High end CRTs from a few years ago will likely have better colour depth than the bottom-end HD TVs. This is a general issue with variance in quality and settings and there is nothing you can do about it really. Ccubbage's idea is fantastic, I don't know how I didn't think of this before. It's solved a couple of problems for me, but can't really solve the overall issue of not knowing how your level will show on other people's set-ups. Best bet is to get your hands on a THX optimiser, optimise your TV settings, and then make sure your game plays OK with the gamma turned down slightly (as a bit of a "margin for error"). Then get it in the showcase here when you publish and specifically ask for advice on this issue, and see how others respond to it. After that, you will have to rely on people being smart enough to adjust their settings. Thats as good as you can do. One thing I've noticed. If a player puts a comment on my level that says "too dark" (which MOST creators either a) ignore and get mad about or b) worry about) I send them a PSN message asking them if they would be willing to give me more details and try it after a few adjustments. I have not found a player yet that didn't REALLY enjoy this - makes them feel like they're part of something. I used to have a rear-projection Hitachi and the contrast was FAR worse than my current Samsung DLP, so even people with an HDTV may have an issue, so definately don't just ignore people who say a level is too dark - they may represent a large percentage of your players and it could lower your ratings significantly.

2009-07-02 13:26:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Some people set their brightness very low. I never understood why though. Do you like everything being dim, and having to squint at everything? I know I sure don't, my brightness is at around 86 out of 100. I also noticed my one stage getting feedback for being to difficult to see on, so I had to redo the lighting.

2009-07-03 01:37:00 Author: SlyNinja11 Posts: 11

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