Archive: 20 posts

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Hi, I've seen some creators look down upon levels where the level/background floor is visible or used. Some have even given advice to start way up into the sky, instead of the ground. Is it really such a big no-no? The level I'm working on starts at a ground level (the whole level rests on the floor and sees you working your way to the top of the castle), and I'm just curious to know why is it seen as such a creation mistake? Is there some horrible secret I'm unaware of?

2009-06-24 10:06:00 Author: noddle111 Posts: 174

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Not really as long as it fits in with the level and all that, like if you're making an ice level, you're not gnna want to see the default or some other floor other than "The wilderness'" floor background. It all depends from level to level to tell you the thruth, so don't worry about it as long as it looks good it should be fine.

2009-06-24 10:22:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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I personally don't see anything wrong with it. The level I'm working on at the moment uses background floor for about one fifth of the playable time. The only reason why I would suggest against it is the fact its completely flat and it makes things more interesting for players when there are constantly changing landscapes. Some of the floors look great and I think are greatly underused. As long as the player isn't running long distances doing nothing you should be fine.

2009-06-24 10:24:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904

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I have lots of ups and downs all the way into the sky, and it suits the level, so i shouldn't be too worried that it'll limit me. Thanks guys!

2009-06-24 12:02:00 Author: noddle111 Posts: 174

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If it works, then use it! I don't get the thing for not using story objects either. Obviously the enemies and certain objects are completely overused but stuff like the Tim Burton-esque trees and clouds still look great however many times i see them.

2009-06-24 13:14:00 Author: julesyjules Posts: 1156

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There was a level, I believe by Davey_U, something like GasGrid Challenge, where the background of the scene was mushrooms, and he actually made mushrooms in the level that you would jump on. It was on the ground and it was a fantastic level.

2009-06-24 14:16:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325

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Hi, I've seen some creators look down upon levels where the level/background floor is visible or used. Some have even given advice to start way up into the sky, instead of the ground. Is it really such a big no-no? Well judging by the other responses in this thread, I'm in the minority, but yeah I'm one of those people who really hates it when the floor is visible in a level. I have no idea why, I think it's just an irrational hatred But seriously, I think it's because so many new creators use just the plain floor in their levels and nothing else except for items/objects/enemies that run along the premade ground...and it just looks really lazy and uninspired. But I can appreciate that there are times where the plain floor could be used in interesting ways, I just haven't really seen it done yet.

2009-06-24 16:34:00 Author: CheesyMcFly Posts: 211

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Try AAAlone's Nerves of Steel. Fantastic use of the level floor and IMO it would have detracted from the visual effect of the level if he had tried to make a floor out of materials. I think when people dislike this it's a kind of knee-jerk reaction, due to (as cheesey says) associating it with shoddy, half-arsed levels.

2009-06-24 16:37:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Two things come to mind in the discussion of the floor... First, I think a lot of the levels that come under this scrutiny are those that use the default blue background and the floor is therefor the default taupe carpet. The other point is that when using the floor, you really have to be careful when you glue stuff. Once you start gluing to the floor, un-gluing can become disastrous.

2009-06-24 16:42:00 Author: v0rtex Posts: 1878

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I can appreciate that there are times where the plain floor could be used in interesting ways, I just haven't really seen it done yet. Thats cos you havn't seen my newest level Only kidding... My level starts in the mountains and you decend into a town where you need to rob a train. Now, in this instance, it makes sense to have a flat ground in a small town at the foot of a mountain and the clay from the Canyons Baground looks perfect for the wild west theme. My point is, that its completly relative to the level your making. Most of the time it really doesn't work, but sometimes its perfect for what you need.

2009-06-24 16:47:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904

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Try AAAlone's Nerves of Steel. Fantastic use of the level floor and IMO it would have detracted from the visual effect of the level if he had tried to make a floor out of materials. I think when people dislike this it's a kind of knee-jerk reaction, due to (as cheesey says) associating it with shoddy, half-arsed levels. D'oh! I knew I forgot at least one great level that used the floor, I bet there's many more than I'm forgetting too. But yeah, it might just be more or there might be other people like this too, but seeing the floor leaves me with a very bad impression of a level, and as a result it will be harder for a level to leave me with a good impression afterwards. Not that it can't be done (as in the case of Nerves of Steel, which is right up there amongst the very best LBP levels imo, and I have faith in Wexfordian that he will be able to pull it off too) but it's rarely the case that I will end up liking a level that is directly on the ground. Still you should definitely feel free to ignore my irrational ranting, as I say it is a kneejerk reaction to too many bad levels rather than a stylistic thing. In fact I went back recently to observe MM's levels (which is always a really interesting exercise) and I noticed plenty of times when they use the plain floor in their levels. And if MM do it, it can't be wrong

2009-06-24 16:55:00 Author: CheesyMcFly Posts: 211

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hmmm, this is all very interesting. It's funny how it affects a players perception of the level. I've played some really bad levels where the floor is used as the main platform, it usually does indicate bad design, but when looking toward games such as Mario Brothers, one of the most memorable platformers, it's obvious that it IS possible to use it to good effect, it just depends on the skill of the creator and the style of the level. I guess all the bad levels that have been made like that has given this a bad name.

2009-06-24 17:26:00 Author: noddle111 Posts: 174

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I have no problem with a level using or showing the floor as long as it makes sense in the level design. If you have a space themed level - why OH WHY would you want cactus or rocks on the floor showing, conversely if you have a western themed level (I know you're reading this Wexfordian!) It would make perfect sense to have some of the foreground from the canyons background showing. It's all about context not about "it's the floor - that's bad."

2009-06-24 17:49:00 Author: Morgana25 Posts: 5983

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I'll put in my thoughts on the subject. Floors in general are boring if they're flat. That's pretty general. But they can work if you get things right. Don't draw attention to the floor being flat or the background. The reason I think most people don't like the floor showing is the fact you can't decorate it, and the only way is up. You cannot fall any further and so it limits what you can do. Notice that Mm never used the floor in their levels (as far as I can remember). But I beleive that the floor can be used succesfully - I just haven't seen it done yet [good luck Wex ]

2009-06-24 19:27:00 Author: Coxy224 Posts: 2645

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Notice that Mm never used the floor in their levels The one where you have to free Uncle Jalepeno opens on the floor of the level. The Gardens has a lot of time on the floor too.

2009-06-24 19:29:00 Author: Morgana25 Posts: 5983

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Haha, showing me up with your LBP knowledge there Morgana But if I'm correct then those are the levels that people hate the most - The Gardens one's and Boom Town!

2009-06-24 19:39:00 Author: Coxy224 Posts: 2645

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Haha, showing me up with your LBP knowledge there Morgana But if I'm correct then those are the levels that people hate the most - The Gardens one's and Boom Town! Boom Town was one of my favorite levels, I loved blowing open Uncle Jalape?o's cage and trying to carry bombs through treacherous environments, despite how frustrating it was to ace.

2009-06-24 20:34:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325

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as long as there is a rocket cheetah on there as well its all good.

2009-06-24 21:04:00 Author: deboerdave Posts: 384

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It's all about context not about "it's the floor - that's bad." This pretty much sums up my thoughts on this and a lot of other stuff. The floor and the background are just another tool. You can use it well and you can use it badly. Most of us have probably seen bad uses for almost every tool in the game, doesn't mean the tool is bad.

2009-06-24 23:34:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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it really does depend on the level and how its incorporated, like a lot of johnee's stuff takes place on the floor and looks fantastic, personally i dislike using floor for my levels but thats only because i dont think i could pull it off well in the paticular concept, not that its bad to use

2009-06-25 00:35:00 Author: redmagus Posts: 667

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