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Switches, Tricks, & Logic Concepts for Experts & Dummies Alike

Archive: 21 posts

I've recently made a switch level, and as far as I think it's probably the most thourough and easy to understand I included 20 switches with step by step info for each switch and how it could be useful in one of your levels, and a special bonus switch for #20, but you'll have to try my level to see it for yourself

http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=521&pictureid=4574
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=521&pictureid=4573
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=521&pictureid=4572

Like the Title, the level is called Switches, Tricks, & Logic Concepts For Experts & Dummies Alike
But you could probably find it easily by searching the words Switches & Logic Concepts
Feel free to tell me if you know about any switches I missed. My PSN is Incinerator22		2009-06-18 02:21:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

Cool.

How does the point switch work?

Is the chance switch really perfect 50/50? I got x10 first light first time. And it doesn't always activate?

Earthquake switch is smart

White elevator should move all the way w/the big switch.



Would be nice if I knew which switch prizes were which at the end.
Also I would like to see the demonstration switches bigger to see what is going on.

Just some opinions from a novice switch guy.
Best switch tutorial I have seen so far. Hearted for ref.		2009-06-18 04:36:00

Author:
midnight_heist
Posts: 2513

A very usefull level if you, like me, need to learn alot about switches.
I have been wondering about how to make some of the switches and some i hadn't even thought of.

It would be nice if you could see the names of the switches in the end where you picked them up as price bubbles.

All in all, the best switch tutorial I have played.		2009-06-18 16:17:00

Author:
Caveman
Posts: 22

Hey incinerator,
I was wanting to check this level out, but completely forgot. When you posted on my Aperture Science level, it reminded me, so here we are... (thanks, by the way).

About switch #16, I used it heavily in my Sack Ninja Training level as a puzzle-solving mechanic. Each switch controls one or more doors, and each door is controlled by more than one switch - it got complicated, but it uses the same basic idea as your switch.

Also, the earthquake switch: I believe I came up with an idea to make it seem more organic, rather than just bouncing back and forth along a single axis. I was trying to come up with a "building is going to collapse" camera, and I placed a camera zone on this:

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3068/earthquakeswitch.png

The blue wheel is attached to dark matter behind it, and the red wheel is thin and attached to the blue wheel (green = motor bolts). You make the red one go really fast, and the blue one go pretty slow. I overlapped the earthquake camera zone with a stationary camera zone, and set the moving one to fairly high follow (so I could put it off to the side). It gave me a pretty nice effect, and because I overlap it with other camera zones, I can make the "earthquake zone" very large and have a different variety of camera zones within it. Also, it allows previously visited areas to be affected by the shaking motion, as the camera zone is triggered by a switch somewhere.

Additionally, there is a switch that dcf taught me about (my version was dumb by comparison), but it is a way to make a one shot switch give a different output each time. The basic idea is that the one shot switch emits a paintball at a piece of dark matter (you can set this up however you want). You then connect however many paint switches you need to the dark matter (you can connect as many paint switches as you want to a single object). Set one paint switch to require 1 shot, another to require 2 shots, and so on... This is also a form of a permanent switch, as you will see if you try it out. It's a good method if you are creating some sort of boss fight, where each time you shoot him/her, something different happens (make him/her have stages, if you will).

Finally, another semi-specialized switch, but useful nonetheless:
I was trying to recreate Media-Molecules checkpoint that pops up from under the level when you die in the final level. I came up with a solid design after some tweaking. The idea is that you want a permanent switch that is also triggered with a proximity switch, so I made this:
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1315/switch2.png

In my case, the blue switch (rectangle) is set to direction, so before you get anywhere near the proximity switches, the key that is attached to dissolve material keeps it set in one direction, but once you come into range (in my case, both proximity switch were attached to the checkpoint, so triggering the checkpoint also triggered the switch), the top key is destroyed with the dissolve material, so the only way to re-trigger the switch is by the proximity switch. The way it works in my level is that the checkpoint is in a little housing that is initially up when you enter the room. Once you trigger the checkpoint, the top key dissolves and the checkpoint drops below the level. When you die, you come out of the checkpoint, which triggers the housing to rise out of the floor, getting you right back into the action. The convenient thing about this is that the player triggers the proximity switch well before they are all the way through the respawn.

Good level all around though. I didn't really learn anything new except for the switch that requires you to trigger it an x number of times (which could also be done by the paintball method described above, but it was well designed, and good for people who are new to logic. The final logic though, had a problem with the little vehicle you ride in. It got stuck, so I only got to see about half of it. I gave it :star::star::star::star:.		2009-06-18 23:33:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

Thanks for all that info comphermc
Ya i realize the earthquake switch was a little artificial, but i had to make it fit in one of my little dark matter cubes hehe, so im sorry about that...
And midnight heist, to answer your questions, the point switch is a cheap but effective trick to destroy 6 creatures, 50 points each, adding up to 300 points. And unfortunately the chance switch was supposed to activate the left light 50% of the time and the right light 50% of the time too, and by all means in all matters of physics it should, but the magnetic key switches dont seem to pick up magnetic keys moving at .1 of a second, and the switch favours the left light more for some reason.

I don't understand how the white thing could get stuck
Can anyone describe it to me in greater detail? I've done it 4 or 5 times and it always works for me, but 2 or 3 people have complained about it getting stuck. I just don't know how that could happen because the piston is stiff and i used a grid to make it go perfectly left, but i'll try to prevent this when I republish the level.		2009-06-19 01:50:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

I don't understand how the white thing could get stuck
Can anyone describe it to me in greater detail? I've done it 4 or 5 times and it always works for me, but 2 or 3 people have complained about it getting stuck. I just don't know how that could happen because the piston is stiff and i used a grid to make it go perfectly left, but i'll try to prevent this when I republish the level.

I think it's getting stuck on either the ceiling or the floor - I'm not sure which. It started moving, but then stopped...

Edit: about the 50/50 switch, why does it need to be set at .1? Wouldn't it work the same way with .2, but with tweaked key trigger radii? Or for any speed for that matter. The player wouldn't see the logic, so for all they know it would be random. If I seem to be raining on any parades, it is not my intention...		2009-06-19 04:02:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

Please assign your Magic Mouths for each switch to one or more player-operated switches (e.g., "grab here for info"). I didn't want to clean out your Souvenir Shop, but I did find myself wanting to go back and make sure I got the right numbered prize bubble, by rereading. 'Course, when I got back, it was move a bit/hit triangle/see if this is the right speech bubble. Also, numbering the prizes in the shop makes it easier to take just what want.

I found #14 (AutoPoints) to be the most useful, and it may considerably reduce the number of bubbles I put into my story- or mood-heavy levels. Thank you for the insight.

I wouldn't worry about the earthquake being a "gimmick". It's still a very useful tool.		2009-06-19 05:03:00

Author:
coyote_blue
Posts: 422

Playing with switches and logic is part of what I enjoy the most about making levels so this particular one was a fun play through for me. You have a good amount of switches and you took a lot of time to work your way up from simple devices to more complicated ones. There is also section that describes how to use the devices in our own levels which is a good touch I haven?t seen in too many switch demo levels.

I am always interested in seeing how other people create their own switches as there are quite a few ways in LBP to build the same circuit.

One thing that struck me as I played through the level is that a lot of the switches on display are fairly small. This can be a good thing when you are using up a huge amount of space and need to tuck the switches away in a small area. However for this level where you are showing the player about each type of switch I thought that it would be easier for the player to actually see the intricacies of the various switches if they weren?t so small.

One example of this is the three way OR switch, there is some much crammed in right next to each other that a person not too familiar with the concept may not be able to see enough to figure out what is going on there.

Naturally a person can simply collect the prize bubble and then go to their moon, blow up the object and study it closer but then they need to also set up the switch to external objects so that pistons work properly and if they don't quite understand the concept then they are just as stuck as before. I?m just bringing this example up to show that it can be beneficial to presenting the switches in a larger format.

Another thing that I thought of what that there were a few switches I did want to poke around with to see the details of what you did but couldn?t see from the demo of the switch and wanted to collect the prize bubble. When I got to the end I found out that the way you?ve laid out the bubbles I have to pick up every other switch up to the one that I want rather than being able to pick out just the ones that I wanted.

Possibly there is a way to pick out just switch 16 and 18, for example but I don't remember seeing a way. Also if the bubbles for each switch was on a pedestal next to each switch demonstration then the player would also not need to remember or write down the numbers of the one they are interested in for later reference.

I enjoyed your last switch and it is always fun to see an automated sequence work properly. Does that last switch do anything however other than start at one end and end at the other?

Great work on this level, it has good presentation, very good switches and a fun layout.		2009-06-19 16:48:00

Author:
Trindall
Posts: 297

Trindal, the last switch was a joke. All it's supposed to do is take a ton of time to make it seem like it'll do something big and important, but all it does is turn on a light lol.

I fixed the glitch where the white thing gets stuck, and I'm going to try to make it possible to pick out your prizes.

And comphermc, the chance switch doesn't, but I was just trying to make it as fast and easy as possible, but I failed lol 		2009-06-19 21:37:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

so the earthquake switch is just a camera attached to a fast moving piston that puts you in and out of the "zone"?2009-06-19 22:00:00

Author:
ZipCity
Posts: 208

No, it physically moves the zone. When the camera is set to "low follow" the camera will change viewing angle... I hope that makes sense. To make it clearer, try filming something with the videocamera, and then shake the camera up and down. You aren't moving the thing being filmed, the camera itself is moving.2009-06-20 04:22:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

I'm gonna give this level a try! It looks cool!2009-06-20 06:54:00

Author:
Sunrise_Moon
Posts: 469

No, it physically moves the zone. When the camera is set to "low follow" the camera will change viewing angle... I hope that makes sense. To make it clearer, try filming something with the videocamera, and then shake the camera up and down. You aren't moving the thing being filmed, the camera itself is moving.

That's what I meant by "putting you in and out of the zone".....not that your sackboy moves, but that the edge of the camera zone is set so that as the camera moves, the zone includes the sackboy when the piston is down, but not when it's up		2009-06-20 14:33:00

Author:
ZipCity
Posts: 208

Not really. The center of the camera zone moves, but you stay in it the whole time. It's like the camera shaking analogy: you can shake a camera so an object is on screen the whole time, but the viewer would see it as shaking around. This is how they simulate earthquakes in bad movies - they just shake the camera and the person on screen pretends to be jostled. They are not moved to and from being on camera, rather the center of the camera is moving about...2009-06-20 17:22:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

ah, i see. gotcha2009-06-20 18:51:00

Author:
ZipCity
Posts: 208

I'm not ashamed to say that I love Logic Switches and gates. So when I saw this level I couldn't wait. And you didn't dissapoint! The first few were all simple switches which most know how to do but then the complexity started increasing and I really loved that
I'd like to have seen some way of determining which was each switch in the gift shop so I could choose which one I wanted, because a few of them I already had.
Still, an easy :star::star::star::star::star: and a heart from me 		2009-06-21 09:01:00

Author:
Coxy224
Posts: 2645

thanks Coxy
switches bring the world together lol
and its fun to make puns with them
Son of a switch.
I was accused of switchcraft.
Lilo & Switch.
How the Switch stole Christmas.		2009-06-23 00:27:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

This is a nice collection of switches you've got going on there. I'm not entirely sure how I got to inspire you, but I'm glad I did and thanks anyway!

The only feedback I'd give is that in some of the cases, as this is a learning tool, you may want to make the switches bigger - I get that you want them compact, but it's hard to see the mechanics of them when they are so little. Some of the switches would be more suited to having a two way switches, rather than grabs - You've done this for the XOR, but not the AND? Also the RS could do with 2-way switches so that the behaviour of both inputs on can be observed. Have you considered using prox switches on the magic mouths - it allows you to re-read them in order, in case you miss certain bits of information. A couple of times I missed something, tried to go back and could only read one of the magic mouths as there were two on top of each other. These are, of course all very minor things.

On the design of the switches, some of the designs are a little convoluted - The RS latch and three-way grab switch for instance can be made with less "unnecessary materials". I have a personal dislike for dissolve - based swiches, but thats just me and it's a standard technique that many people use.

Oh and yeah the final switch did amuse me. Maybe it could end by shooting you, like peter's breakfast machine in family guy? Or is that too mean?

Anyhoo, nice level with some useful info for many creators out there, plus it looks a little pretty (the bushes at the beginning in particular), which many such levels don't. 5* from me.		2009-06-23 01:00:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

Thanks rtm223, glad you liked it
i sent u a friend request in lbp that im guessing you didn't see because you didn't answer yes or no to yet, but i hope u answer yes 		2009-06-23 23:17:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

Ah, sorry dude, the other day it did come up with "you have a new message" when I logged in. Forgot about it straight away. That was probably the friend request. I'll get on it next time I log in (assuming I remember) - I'm not ignoring you, honest2009-06-26 09:51:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

I was searching for a "partially permanent switch" or "semi-permanent switch" and didn't find specific hits for those terms, but what I really wanted was your #8, the state switch. I had made a disgusting glass monster on a wobble bolt with a sliding magnetic key, and dissolve in the middle. So it was basically the typical permanent switch, but with rotation and emitters. Your state switch is just a cute little box with a wobble and a motor bolt Very helpful, thanks.2009-06-30 16:33:00

Author:
tashi
Posts: 60


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