Archive: 24 posts

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Ok right now I feel dumb but it seems I can't figure out a solution just from the top of my head. Since the internet exist, that I am at the office and that you are all intelligent people, I thought I could save some calories asking you guys out. I made an ennemi that hits the ground with his arms so there's rocks falling. A piston is all good for the up and down movement of the arm. My problem is that I want the arm to go up and down for a certain time and then stop. This in itself is easy (creating a timer). My problem now is that when the character finishes his arm movement, I always want the arms to be down and not up. This is the thing i'm not sure of how to pull off. So basically, I need the arms to go up and down during a certain time. At the end of this lap, I always need the arms to be down. My head is blank right now for finding a solution because i'm mixing the normal on/off behavior of a piston with the "direction" behavior... .

2009-06-17 17:20:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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Ummmm, you can do matching of the timings of up and down cycles with a timer circuit. May fall out of sync. You can use a flipper with 1 shot inputs. But this has the issue of flipper motion looking odd. You can use a timer firing with one shots. An emitter emmits a key for x seconds, where X is long enough to raise the arms. The key goes into a directional control for the arms. It then goes off for Y, which is long enough to lower the arms. Trigger the timer z times and you get z floor bashes and at the end, you get arms at the bottom. Thats a basic version, I can think of an extended one, but it's a bit convoluted to explain right now. Does this sound like it might do the trick

2009-06-17 17:39:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Could you emit a mag key at a regular interval but have the emmiter set to a timer. So it sets off the mag switch which controls the pistons. Have a section built into the timer (Timer controlling the 2nd timer) where the mag key isn't emited and have the pistons set to direction so that when the key is gone they go down. When the timer starts emiting the mag keys again, the arms should move..... would that work?

2009-06-17 17:51:00 Author: Morgana25 Posts: 5983

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You could put a mag-switch at the down position of the piston movement, so it is only activated when the arms are down. Now invert that switch and add it to an OR gate with the timer. The OR gate controls the piston(s). Now the they will activate if the timer is on or the arms are not yet down. Once down (and timer OFF), they stop.

2009-06-17 17:54:00 Author: v0rtex Posts: 1878

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You can use a timer firing with one shots. An emitter emmits a key for x seconds, where X is long enough to raise the arms. The key goes into a directional control for the arms. It then goes off for Y, which is long enough to lower the arms. Trigger the timer z times and you get z floor bashes and at the end, you get arms at the bottom. hmm, it's interesting. Looks impossible to desync wich is great. .

2009-06-17 18:08:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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I'm not sure whether I'm getting the whole picture or not, but what I usually do for this is have a piston lowering a piece of material with a magnetic switch on it, and just place magnetic keys in intervals so that the switch passes each key. The magnetic switch is set to directional and lowers the arm. When the piston is fully extended, just make sure it's hitting a key so it stays down. This is what I did in my Starship Troopers level to get the 4 bug arms to hit the floor and control the insect vomit (lol).... This also allows you to treak when the arm is moving up and down to not be an exact interval if you want

2009-06-17 18:16:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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How about this: - Arm pistons set to "backwards" (so "extended" is default) - Create a ring of dark matter with a circle in the middle, and attach an arm to it with a motor bolt (like the big hand of a clock). - Put a magnetic key switch (directional) on the end of the rotating arm and wire it to the pistons. - Put magnetic keys at, say, 1, 2 and 3 O'clock on the ring and make the trigger radius small enough to allow the pistons to extend fully in between. - Leave 4 thru 12 o'clock empty as your "pause" interval and set the motor bolt timer so that one revolution = your arms hitting the floor plus the time inbetween. - PROFIT!

2009-06-18 00:08:00 Author: ZipCity Posts: 208

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Okay, search for a level called "Piston Arm" by me (Zip City) and you'll see my quick mock up. It totally works EDIT: It's on the North Pole

2009-06-18 00:17:00 Author: ZipCity Posts: 208

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lol. no way! Your idea seems EXACTLY like the 2nd part of my boss in my "Burning Outskirts" level. XD

2009-06-18 00:41:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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Okay, search for a level called "Piston Arm" by me (Zip City) and you'll see my quick mock up. It totally works EDIT: It's on the North Pole Sweet, I'll take a look. This sounds more thermo friendly than emitters. .

2009-06-18 03:00:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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hmm, it's interesting. Looks impossible to desync wich is great. . Yeah, it is. The slightly complex option would be to have: An input for when you want the attack going (attackOn) An input to indicate when the arm is in it's lower position (armLow) (AttackOn AND armLow) -> 1 shot emmitter emmitting a key for x seconds. The key goes into an armRaise signal. After X the arms fall again. When the arms get to the bottom, IF your attackOn signal is still going, you get another raise. All you need is 2 pistons and 1 emitter (btw, emitters emitting DM & keys are VERY thermo friendly, more so that wobble bolts and pistons in my testing...) IMO, the awkwardness of altering a timing wheel (pauses between attacks, pauses at the top of arm movement, number of attacks, etc) outweighs the imperceptible thermo increase, but thats me. You can actually vary number of attacks at run time as well, which is nice. I would also recommend using a winch to bring the arms down faster than they go up, to enhance the "smash"

2009-06-18 11:24:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I would also recommend using a winch to bring the arms down faster than they go up, to enhance the "smash" I'm not sure how you do that. Winches can override pistons?? .

2009-06-18 12:10:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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Hell yeah Make the piston weaker than the winch and set the winch to move fast. When the winch and piston are moving outwards the winch has no effect as it can't push - you move at the piston's speed. As the winch and piston pull back in the winch overpowers the piston, because it is stronger, so you move at winch's speed. Different speeds for in and out. Just connect both connectors to the same directional control. It's a technique I now use for everything. There's not a problem in this world you can't solve with an emitter and a strong chain

2009-06-18 12:44:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Definitely follow rtm223's advice. The chain/piston combi is one of the most awesome things in LBP.

2009-06-18 12:53:00 Author: dcf Posts: 468

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I think this solution is even simpler than the others even though it uses an emitter, once I remembered the "door" I made using the technique. Put two pistons on it for general stability, set to all the speeds and length you want etc but set them to flipper, either right or left depending on wether you connected them top to bottom, or bottom to top. Next... 1 block of a dark matter with a paint switch on it. Set the paint switch to 1 shot, and keep it at 1 hit. Connect that paint switch to the pistons. On another block of dark matter, directly above this one, put an emitter on it. 5.0 velocity (give or take) 0.1+ frequency (depends on how fast you want it to go up and down) 0.5 lifetime (give or take) infinite max emitted 1 at a time Put a paintball in it and have it shooting at the block below to trigger the paint switch. All you have to do is turn that emitter on and off with your timer system. It will reset perfectly every time, and doesn't depend on any kind of lifetime or synchronization. No fuss with strengths or lengths. In case this doesn't make sense, I'll post a level called "Arm For RangerZero to Use In His Level" here in a few minutes with it as a prize. Try it, and let me know when you've checked it out so I can delete it.

2009-06-18 13:30:00 Author: Unknown User

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Ninja's solution will work as it is using the implicit syncing of the flippers to achieve the result. As I posted in my first thread, the flipper motion will look a bit weird IMO. If you decide to go for the timing wheel option, rather than having all of the attacks and the pause on the same wheel, you can have one key (one attack) on the wheel and just let it spin while attacking. This way you can vary the number of attacks during run time. This will make you more prone to losing sync, but you can also use a chain to lock the wheel in place where you want it to stop. So your "stop" / "NOT(start)" signal will just pull the chain in (wheel is still trying to move but won't), so that the stopping point is guaranteed geometrically, rather than by time syncing. Useful trick for timing wheels in general there. Again chains FTW.

2009-06-18 13:35:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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^I'd say it'll all just depend on the speed of the piston crushing, the design of the arm, and the synch of both arms to make it interesting ala geosautus' Magnificent Ruby boss. You can also use a speed setting on the switch that triggers the emitter to make it more unpredictable... to start slow, and build up speed and crush faster, then stop completely. I published it as an item with the speed setting. If you increase the radius on it, closer to the timer's reset position, it'll change it's pattern dramatically, and have alot of liveliness to it. If you have any troubles with the pattern being too unpredictable, just switch the green keys controlling the emitters back to one power instead of speed. On top of that, the whole thing can just be connected to a traditional "Survival Challenge" piston-box meter set to speed, and tabbed to your initial timer pistons that dictate the attacks... that will invariably speed the whole thing up as the boss gets weaker... just have it moved along by some invisible secondary and tertiary paint switches on the boss (to go with weakpoints destroyed, or in fractions of total life) as dummies to the real life bar, or keyed up brains tied directly to some dissolve barriers in the meter box to allow it to progress further along as the boss is "weakened"

2009-06-18 13:54:00 Author: Unknown User

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^I'd say it'll all just depend on the speed of the piston crushing, the design of the arm, and the synch of both arms to make it interesting ala geosautus' Magnificent Ruby boss. Oh yeah, I totally agree. But in a general sense, articulating limbs using flippers is likely to look a little off, especially if going up is the flip and down is slow, even though down is supposed to be a strike... But thats all down to opinion, there is certainly no right or wrong about it. Plus I'm very biassed in the sense that I just don't like flippers or their idiosyncrasies and I can generally find a different way that avoids them. Also, emitting a piece of DM with a key on is probably more efficient that a paintball and PB switch, but not much. As for changing the frequency of attacks, that can be pretty easilly done with either of the other systems as well.

2009-06-18 15:02:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I don't know. I've tried to make one shot sequencers using short lifespan emitter keys... it's never guaranteed for me, and will always desynch as whatever triggers the emitter exits the radius of the the switch... especially if it's initiated by player input. Distance is metric in the game, while time is not... there's only a few combinations that will actually synch together, and eventually the key will be there less time, or more time than it's supposed to, and occur twice in one action. The paintball destroys itself upon impact... it can't be there too long or too short no matter what. That's why I think it's impossible to throw off time. If you're changing attack patterns or speed with the other systems, the risk of the switch radius being occupied too long/short or doubled up is only increased. The worst thing that can happen with the painswitch system, is 4 attacks 90% of the time, 3 or 5 attacks the other 10%... give or take. Celteen is the only person I've ever seen come up with an emitter based synchronization logic-box that is 100% failsafe every time, and always completes a full cycle of action no matter how the trigger switch is treated or how it behaves... it's for his 7th iteration of a bipedal Rex, and is probably the most complicated single-action switch box I've ever seen. I just went into a level and destroyed the checkpoint. Inserted a paintball - no thermometer increase. Inserted a dark matter block wth a green key on it - no thermometer increase. I don't think either one is more or less efficient thermometer wise, but stickers could build up to a finite amount on the dark matter block as paint splatters it, and remove themselves witch each successive splatter. Probably a non issue as a player will more than likely pick up a point or two and dissolve a couple permanent switches on their way to the boss, knocking therm down from %99.99~ to enough room for the paintgun to fire and any other emitters, and hopefully preventing any possible mid-play overheats.

2009-06-19 00:20:00 Author: Unknown User

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I got it Ninja. You can erase the level if you want. I'm not sure wich one of the possible solutions i'm gonna use, i'm gonna mess around with both of them and see. .

2009-06-19 03:43:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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Can I delete my level too?

2009-06-19 15:12:00 Author: ZipCity Posts: 208

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Oh sorry Zip, I only had left a comment in your level. You can delete it as well if you need space tks again for the support. I have my boss arm situation solved and now I'm facing an even bigger problem. lol My boss takes the 3 layers and basically block all directions except "down". It will need to dissolve it when it dies because Sackboy needs to get the hell out of there by the left or right side. I dunno why I didn't think about it earlier. My planning wasn't really great it seems .

2009-06-20 05:36:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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Oh sorry Zip, I only had left a comment in your level. You can delete it as well if you need space tks again for the support. I have my boss arm situation solved and now I'm facing an even bigger problem. lol My boss takes the 3 layers and basically block all directions except "down". It will need to dissolve it when it dies because Sackboy needs to get the hell out of there by the left or right side. I dunno why I didn't think about it earlier. My planning wasn't really great it seems . So just pop a protected brain with a '1' switch. That aught to do the job.

2009-06-20 13:30:00 Author: dcf Posts: 468

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I got things figured out but there's something that I don't like about the whole thing. I'm such a ****** about my design, I want my stuff to really be good. I'm holding on! .

2009-06-20 21:33:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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