Archive: 55 posts

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The origins of H4Hers http://boards.ign.com/ps3_lobby/b8269/181443004/p1/?5: Date Posted: 6/15 7:33pm Subject: LBP trophy help? search "H4H" in the community levels and leave a message on them if you haven't already. You can get a few quick hearts that way. Date Posted: 6/15 9:17pm Subject: LBP trophy help? Sorry, I borrowed it from a friend, got my platinum, and gave it back. Basically just go around posting 'H4H' everywhere. It gets stored in your predictive text so it gets very easy. Go heart user levels and post 'H4H' and post 'H4H' on the regular levels as well. Also you can make levels called "H4H" *shudders*

2009-06-16 13:31:00 Author: CheesyMcFly Posts: 211

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Good thread to learn about LBP History (although this doesn't really help with my homework T_T)

2009-06-16 13:32:00 Author: AwesomePossum Posts: 446

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Good thread to learn about LBP History (although this doesn't really help with my homework T_T) Actually this is a post from today (!!) and is an example of a new LBP player being initiated into the cult of H4H. Although I've always wondered where H4H started in the very beginning, before it even had a name. Did one person come up with that acronym, or did many people think of it simultaneously...?

2009-06-16 13:46:00 Author: CheesyMcFly Posts: 211

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FOUND IT! The origins..... http://forums.littlebigworkshop.com/lbp/board/message?board.id=promozone&thread.id=404

2009-06-16 14:11:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904

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All troubles starts from the shop. .

2009-06-16 14:38:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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Oh wow! The scary thing is that I actually remember Parallax Death Jumpers, it was probably one of the first levels I ever played, after hearing about it on the LBWorkshop. It's interesting how you can see the seeds of H4H being planted, but I'm still curious, who was the one to come up with the phrase 'H4H'?

2009-06-16 14:52:00 Author: CheesyMcFly Posts: 211

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Here's something I found searching the gamefaqs forums out of curiosity... dated 10/27/2008 http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=938583&topic=46211779 Edit : So yeah... seems the whole concept of trading hearts on GFAQS was born somewhere around the 26th - 29th (after/during the pre-order code hysteria). Soon afterwards people started complaining that it was wrong and would lead to quality levels being pushed aside in favor of rubbish levels... how right they were.

2009-06-16 15:11:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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What we need is some sort of time machine and a Terminator.

2009-06-16 15:24:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096

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Or hack the LBP censor to include the words "h4h" and "heart". Considering how brutally efficient it is at keeping us from writing "computer" and "happened" I think this could work. :hero:

2009-06-16 16:11:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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H4H. Why can't those levels just go away...I've seen some people doing it even though they have a bunch of hearts, enough that they have the Create trophy. I think there are some that just do it because they see the other losers doing it.

2009-06-16 16:32:00 Author: brnxblze Posts: 1318

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That's actually incredibly interesting.... the birth of a phenomenon. I love the internet.

2009-06-16 17:16:00 Author: Morgana25 Posts: 5983

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All H4H'ers will endure long painfull suffering in hell, so I'm not worried... they'll get their up n' comings.

2009-06-16 17:23:00 Author: Rustbukkit Posts: 1737

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One second. . . *loud muffled cuss words into a pillow* Ok. . . I agree with that Time Machine Idea, though I don't think that can stop the virus.

2009-06-16 18:24:00 Author: TheMarvelousHat Posts: 542

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The origins of h4h. It's amazing how just something from a few threads in a internet forum can grow into a massive phenomnenom. Thanks for posting these, I was curious about it.

2009-06-16 19:22:00 Author: lk9988 Posts: 1077

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I'm still curious, who was the one to come up with the phrase 'H4H'? It's an evolution of something that existed on many sites before LBP was even announced. Taking deviantart as an example you would get some people that would +watch or +fave and expect the same in return which became known as watch for watch and fave for fave.

2009-06-16 20:10:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

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What we need is some sort of time machine and a Terminator. This is an incredible idea.

2009-06-16 20:18:00 Author: Walter-Kovacs Posts: 542

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It's an evolution of something that existed on many sites before LBP was even announced. Taking deviantart as an example you would get some people that would +watch or +fave and expect the same in return which became known as watch for watch and fave for fave. I've also read through my research that Myspace has "pc4pc", or "Picture Comment for Picture Comment".

2009-06-16 20:23:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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And now we know. And knowing is half the battle! Don't ask me what the battle is, but it's half of it.

2009-06-16 21:41:00 Author: Adaman23 Posts: 18

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And now we know. And knowing is half the battle! Don't ask me what the battle is, but it's half of it. The other half is what Matt 82 said before. A Terminator.

2009-06-16 22:36:00 Author: midnight_heist Posts: 2513

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And now we know. And knowing is half the battle! Don't ask me what the battle is, but it's half of it. Haha well said. I love that the internet allows this kind of archiving and the ability to look back at past trends or events and observe them as they happened. Maybe this will be the birth of a new profession, the Internet Historian.

2009-06-16 22:38:00 Author: CheesyMcFly Posts: 211

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Haha well said. I love that the internet allows this kind of archiving and the ability to look back at past trends or events and observe them as they happened. Maybe this will be the birth of a new profession, the Internet Historian. Personally, I call it crypt keeping. I've done a lot of it through the years, so I can generally find out just about anything through proper searches. Thanks to the Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/) it's now also possible to find pages that have long since disappeared from the web.

2009-06-16 23:17:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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I love that the internet allows this kind of archiving and the ability to look back at past trends or events and observe them as they happened. Yeah, it's great because before the internet there was no way to keep permanent records of things that happened Heh, only joking, three cheers for the information revolution. Hip hip ...

2009-06-16 23:33:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Yeah, it's great because before the internet there was no way to keep permanent records of things that happened Haha you got me there Although the Internet is interesting because it records for as long as that page is archived even the most banal conversation....hooray?

2009-06-17 00:20:00 Author: CheesyMcFly Posts: 211

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Something that's rather interesting about the way the internet archives information is that it archives it "as is" at the moment it was written. So when you go back to it several years later and read it, it's like "reliving" history of sorts. Imagine if we could go back and read Albert Einstein's blog.

2009-06-17 00:28:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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You know... in thinking about it, H4H was really inevitable no matter what. The hearts is really a "point system" - a measure of how well you're playing the game. So, players - regardless of level-building talent - want to join in and get the "points". And since most players don't have a keyboard, and typing out "If I give you a heart, will you give me a heart?" takes a LONG TIME using the controller. I know it's a pain, but the h4h thing doesn't bother me that much. There are other more insideous things that are going on that are worse than simply getting H4H comments.

2009-06-17 14:27:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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You know... in thinking about it, H4H was really inevitable no matter what. The hearts is really a "point system" - a measure of how well you're playing the game. So, players - regardless of level-building talent - want to join in and get the "points". And since most players don't have a keyboard, and typing out "If I give you a heart, will you give me a heart?" takes a LONG TIME using the controller. I know it's a pain, but the h4h thing doesn't bother me that much. There are other more insideous things that are going on that are worse than simply getting H4H comments. That's a good way at looking at it, but then again, hearts are deserved because the level is one of your favorites, and not because someone only hearted one of your levels. A good trade nonetheless, but that's not what the heart is supposed to represent.

2009-06-17 15:06:00 Author: blacknumbers Posts: 79

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Oh, that I totally agree with - but sometimes a design is inviting bad behavior, and we can't really "blame" the general society for wanting to be part of something they aren't REALLY talented enough to be part of.... And even if you hate it you have to admit - as a marketing ploy it works. This little apparent "goof" by MM has resulted in tens of thousands of little H4H crazed hooligans spending an enormous amount of time in LittleBigPlanet, and pushing more sales of the software.

2009-06-17 15:38:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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All H4H'ers will endure long painfull suffering in hell, so I'm not worried... they'll get their up n' comings. Sorry, as a future educator, I can not turn a blind eye to this. It's: "...they'll get their comeuppance"

2009-06-17 15:58:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Oh, that I totally agree with - but sometimes a design is inviting bad behavior, and we can't really "blame" the general society for wanting to be part of something they aren't REALLY talented enough to be part of.... And even if you hate it you have to admit - as a marketing ploy it works. This little apparent "goof" by MM has resulted in tens of thousands of little H4H crazed hooligans spending an enormous amount of time in LittleBigPlanet, and pushing more sales of the software. The H4H would phenomenon wouldn't be if it wasn't for that trophy (didn't follow to who you were answering but yes indeed it's not a society thing). Also, the fact there's a hearting feature probably doesn't influence any sales. It's a phenomen you witness once you actually bought the game. Maybe it makes more people playing online though or trying more levels. .

2009-06-17 17:04:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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LBP History 101. Just imagine a load of little Terminator Sacks going from user from H4Her to the next and killing off their sackboys n girls in the middle of some level or even in create mode. The look on their faces would be priceless. Sitting there slack jawed, holding their controller. Their little sack person lying in a pile of stuffing on the screen. If only it could be made permanent. Pesky checkpoints....

2009-06-17 17:05:00 Author: Chicago51 Posts: 258

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I hate these LBP noobs. Trophies ruined a lot of games for me. Hey Sony, you don't have to copy everything MS does...

2009-06-17 17:11:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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The H4H would phenomenon wouldn't be if it wasn't for that trophy (didn't follow to who you were answering but yes indeed it's not a society thing). Ummm... I really, really think you are wrong here. The trophies only require a token few hearts, but people keep on waaaay longer than that. The hearts are like mini trophies in themselves because, as Ccubbage said, they are something that you can collect. But, unlike trophies, you can collect them continuously. People would want to collect them regardless of the trophies. It's an evolution of something that existed on many sites before LBP was even announced. It goes back waaaay further than that. "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" predates the internet by quite some time. It's a perfectly natural aspect of human interaction. I'm amazed how much people care about H4H and how much time people seem to spend on the forums moaning about it. Stop worrying about it, stop obsessing over it, stop getting so uptight and preachy about it, don't even think about wasting your time trying to "educate" them for having different views to you (this phenomenon I find more pathetic and disturbing than H4H itself, tbh) and just ignore it. You'll be happier, I promise.

2009-06-17 17:18:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Ummm... I really, really think you are wrong here. The trophies only require a token few hearts, but people keep on waaaay longer than that. The hearts are like mini trophies in themselves because, as Ccubbage said, they are something that you can collect. But, unlike trophies, you can collect them continuously. People would want to collect them regardless of the trophies. The primary reward is the trophies. You'd be surprised how trophies matters for casual players and how much they play for them. If they don't have a reward, most wouldn't be collecting for collecting. The reason why you still see HRH is that there's always some players that still don't have the trophy. Seriously, most people don't mind hearted list and I doubt they find a reward in collecting levels. It really is for the trophy. Also, I see trophy levels and H4H levels less and less. Why? because the more time advance, the less new players are entering the game. The less new players = the less people looking for heart related trophies. .

2009-06-17 17:33:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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Well, like with all things LBP, I suppose the H4H craze will eventually die down. After all, the pre-order code hysteria felt like it would last forever at the time, but that eventually went away. They say time heals all.

2009-06-17 17:40:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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The primary reward is the trophies. You'd be surprised how trophies matters for casual players and how much they play for them. If they don't have a reward, most wouldn't be collecting for collecting. The reason why you still see HRH is that there's always some players that still don't have the trophy. Seriously, most people don't mind hearted list and I doubt they find a reward in collecting levels. It really is for the trophy. Also, I see trophy levels and H4H levels less and less. Why? because the more time advance, the less new players are entering the game. The less new players = the less people looking for heart related trophies. . I agree that the trophies are part of the problem, but if they weren't there the hearts alone would still be a motivator. The underlying issue is that if you give people ANY reason for bad behavior, they are going to find a way to abuse it. It's kind of the nature of people. A lot about this system promotes bad behavior - whether it be finding ways to get to the top of cool pages without having a decent level, getting hearts for no other reason than they just "want them", or spamming bad tags onto a level because they CAN and it's FUNNY... so on and so forth. The only way to remove bad behavior is by removing the motivations. And unfortunately, removing the motivations sometimes creates trade-offs that are hard to live with. For instance, MM and Sony WANT to have the motivations in there to create (such as hearts and play counts), but these exact same things can also create the motivations for abusing these things for notoriety.

2009-06-17 18:23:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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The underlying issue is that if you give people ANY reason for bad behavior, they are going to find a way to abuse it. It's kind of the nature of people. Exactly. So they need a reason. They need something coming back to them. In LBP you're NOT recognised and famous, the only thing you can strive for is the make the top of cool pages and also get the trophies. People have bad behavior because it brings them something. Same logic as with good behavior. Right now, I can't think of another real motivator for hearts than the trophy. What else there is? Most people won't ever think it's hearts bringing you on top of the cool pages... .

2009-06-17 19:29:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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Exactly. So they need a reason. They need something coming back to them. In LBP you're NOT recognised and famous, the only thing you can strive for is the make the top of cool pages and also get the trophies. People have bad behavior because it brings them something. Same logic as with good behavior. Right now, I can't think of another real motivator for hearts than the trophy. What else there is? Most people won't ever think it's hearts bringing you on top of the cool pages... . I'm telling you, it's hearts. Hearts are a natural scoring system. This is proven by the fact that a ton of players HAVE the trophies but they keep wanting hearts. I honestly don't know why they care. Some people, like you and I, are fairly logical and realize the arbitrary nature of having them. But to them it's important. It's the same mentality behind collecting hub caps or having the high score in a game, I suppose.

2009-06-17 20:00:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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I'm telling you, it's hearts. Hearts are a natural scoring system. This is proven by the fact that a ton of players HAVE the trophies but they keep wanting hearts. I honestly don't know why they care. Some people, like you and I, are fairly logical and realize the arbitrary nature of having them. But to them it's important. It's the same mentality behind collecting hub caps or having the high score in a game, I suppose. It's hard for me to understand the real collector/hoarder nature is NOT widepread in our society. And most collectors collect because each item IS different. It means their reward comes for the "I will own them all one day". For highscore in a game, it's not arbitrary the least, it's because you want to be on top of the list. With hearts here, after you get the trophy I don't understand the possible motivation. Habit? retardation? lol .

2009-06-17 20:47:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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As has been mentioned, "heart for heart" is old: http://www.google.com/trends?q=heart+for+heart&ctab=795701091&geo=all&date=all

2009-06-17 20:57:00 Author: dawesbr Posts: 3280

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H4H cannot be stopped as long as hearts exist. It's human nature to seek higher rewards at a fast rate, even if playing dirty. On that note... the time machine idea Matt had would work if the Terminator eliminated all world leaders, activated Skynet, and protected all LBPC members.

2009-06-17 21:13:00 Author: Astrosimi Posts: 2046

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Guys, just stop complaining about H4H ******. Sure, it's cheating. Sure, it's unfair. It doesn't make a difference because H4H is going to occur no matter what and there's virtually nothing Mm can do to stop it besides entirely getting rid of the Heart system. And we wouldn't want that, would we? That's what I thought... >_>

2009-06-17 21:16:00 Author: Sack-Jake Posts: 1153

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I use a game board called 1up, and it's full of hardcore gamers, but hardcore LBP players is a very niche thing... so LBP i just another game from last year there, one that came and went. I always try and get people hyped up about something related to LBP there, to no avail lo, ...but I remember a couple months ago, someone posted an H4H thread there, and two people replied saying it was a genius idea. I tried to set them straight, and explained how linking the trophies to create mode is the reason there's 300,000 terrible levels on the server and it's so hard to find a good one (since only LBP regulars like us can ever find good levels... it's the number one complaint, that user generated content is worthless - the 3 months of Ramp domination certainly didn't change anyone's dispositions early on). The guy flipped out, saying how he deserves the trophy because he spent 3 hours in create mode trying to figure it out (sounds like enough time to finish the tutorials lol), and that he didn't have the time to create a good level, just like he didn't have time to get into the top 1% of Killzone 2, but still feels he deserves the trophies for it. The sense of entitlement in unearned trophy-hunting is still psychologically disturbing to me (just as an extension of how the majority of people in general are), but the stark contrast in his disposition when compared to those who create only for the sake of creating... was very enlightening.

2009-06-17 21:29:00 Author: Unknown User

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Achievements and Trophies really are a bad idea. It clearly uses and promote a stupid part of the human brain directly connected to EGO ---> the thing we need to get rid of in order to truly evolve! Poor human race... .

2009-06-17 21:50:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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Oh, that I totally agree with - but sometimes a design is inviting bad behavior, and we can't really "blame" the general society for wanting to be part of something they aren't REALLY talented enough to be part of.... And even if you hate it you have to admit - as a marketing ploy it works. This little apparent "goof" by MM has resulted in tens of thousands of little H4H crazed hooligans spending an enormous amount of time in LittleBigPlanet, and pushing more sales of the software. I understand. I have to say it IS good for making your level known.

2009-06-17 22:05:00 Author: blacknumbers Posts: 79

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I'm telling you, it's hearts. Hearts are a natural scoring system. This is proven by the fact that a ton of players HAVE the trophies but they keep wanting hearts. I honestly don't know why they care. In LBP you're NOT recognised and famous... Right now, I can't think of another real motivator for hearts than the trophy. What else there is? Trophies: people collect them so they look good when someone is looking at their profile, it feeds their egos, makes them feel good about themselves. Hearts: People collect them so they look good when someone is looking at their creator page, it feeds their egos, makes them feel good about themselves. SAME THING. Not entirely, but you said yourself about the ego thing, collecting hearts is an ego boost, with or without an associated trophy. The difference is that hearts are even easier to get, through H4H. Obviously this devalues them, but I don't think the majority of H4H think that way (rationally). Guys, just stop complaining about H4H ****** Thank god someone else is on my wavelength!

2009-06-18 11:38:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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As has been mentioned, "heart for heart" is old: http://www.google.com/trends?q=heart+for+heart&ctab=795701091&geo=all&date=all thats just the occurrence of the words "heart for heart" doesnt have enough data to trend. http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22heart+for+heart%22&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 h4h and "h4h" both start in late 2008 http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22h4h%22&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=h4h&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

2009-06-19 13:35:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

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I'm amazed how much people care about H4H and how much time people seem to spend on the forums moaning about it. Stop worrying about it, stop obsessing over it, stop getting so uptight and preachy about it, don't even think about wasting your time trying to "educate" them for having different views to you (this phenomenon I find more pathetic and disturbing than H4H itself, tbh) and just ignore it. You'll be happier, I promise. When I first joined this site a couple of months ago, I actually agreed 100% with you, since I couldn't understand why people had to be told why what they were doing was "wrong" and why people thought that there was a "right" way to play LBP. Although I have to say that in the past few months I've come to understand more and more why H4H and trophy levels are so despised...because they take the focus away from constructive feedback on levels and make it so much harder to find levels that people have put real effort into. I mean, why is it that when I look through the comments on my levels for helpful feedback, I have to wade through 10 pages of spam before I can find someone who took the time to write a thoughtful, constructive comment? And why when I search for the "highest rated" levels (which should really be the place I go to find the absolute must play LBP levels) do I instead find the place covered with levels that promise 10 trophies in 7 seconds? (and while we're on it, can someone explain why trophy and H4H levels have such high ratings?? I understand that they have high play:heart ratios and high play counts, but why oh why are they given a high rating )

2009-06-19 13:54:00 Author: CheesyMcFly Posts: 211

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Although I have to say that in the past few months I've come to understand more and more why H4H and trophy levels are so despised...because they take the focus away from constructive feedback on levels and make it so much harder to find levels that people have put real effort into. Oh I know, I have only "stumbled upon" 1 or 2 good levels online, mostly I find levels to play from the recommendations here and in other places, and from the object showcases. Anyway, even without all he trophy levels etc, a lot of amazing levels would not get into the highest rated because they don't cater for the masses. So you would still have to go looking for them through sites like this anyway. Or you'd still be missing out, probably without realising it. Ditto for skim reading past the spam, minor annoyance - it takes you what? A minute or so? That shouldn't pose a problem really... Anyway, thats not really my point. LBP is a community with a very large number of members who want to play like this. They have as much right to do so as you do, regardless of what people here might think. You can't stop them, MM and Sony can't stop them and probably don't want to. It will carry on. All you can do is choose how much you let it bother you, so rise above it.

2009-06-19 14:25:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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H4H and trophy levels have affected far more than just the community outlook and creator's struggle... in the first month or so of LBP, the other 90% of hardcore gamers wrote LBP off as a game that had nothing to offer but a story mode, since the face of user generated content was Ramp and trophy-motivated 30 minute-made levels, and a complete and total inability to see the forest through the trees while the forest is on fire and full of garbage that's impossible to sift through for the average person. That has since affected the quality of the audience and the diversity of the community, the favor of the game and it's community in the eyes of the gaming public and media, and by extension the lucrative nature of the game for MM in terms of DLC merchandising and funding for any other projects they may decide to seek publishers for in the future. This also, more than likely, has the adverse effect of cutting the game's lifespan short, as far as quality and types of DLC support, and in general the support for a host server and constant community updates for years to come... since it was gimped out of the gate, it's recovering and rebuilding, progressing in a stagnant pool - an audience with no upward influx and continual growth... rather than focusing only on progressing and feeding an ever growing audience, it's feeding a shrinking audience, and it, probably won't have the server life of something like Starcraft or Diablo II. An LBP2 will be prematurely delivered, if delivered at all. It's a shame how truly ignorant and mindless the majority of people are, and so baffling to me that talentless attention [solicitors] and plagiarists are so common place in all walks of life, and in every medium no matter how insignificant, how new, or how niche. If it wasn't for ourselves as a community, we'd probably write the game off too... I wouldn't know any other good creators, and there would be no reciprocating cycle of recommendations and betterment. Serious creators stuck with it, people who loved create mode, and they congregate in forums like this... but serious players bolted for the next gaming experience as soon as possible, leaving behind only us, alot of kids, and casual gamers... as even that audience begins to dwindle, the creator base will shrink and start to move on as well.

2009-06-19 14:45:00 Author: Unknown User

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H4H and trophy levels have affected far more than just the community outlook and creator's struggle... in the first month or so of LBP, the other 90% of hardcore gamers wrote LBP off as a game that had nothing to offer but a story mode, since the face of user generated content was Ramp and trophy-motivated 30 minute-made levels, and a complete and total inability to see the forest through the trees while the forest is on fire and full of garbage that's impossible to sift through for the average person. That has since affected the quality of the audience and the diversity of the community, the favor of the game and it's community in the eyes of the gaming public and media, and by extension the lucrative nature of the game for MM in terms of DLC and funding for any other projects they may decide to seek publishers for in the future. This also, more than likely, has the adverse effect of cutting the games lifespan short, in terms of DLC support, quality and type, and in general the support for a host server and constant community updates for years to come... since it was gimped out of the gate, it's recovering and rebuilding, progressing in a stagnant pool - an audience with no upward influx and continual growth... rather than focusing only on progressing and feeding an ever growing audience, it's feeding a shrinking audience, and it, probably won't have the server life of something like Starcraft or Diablo II. An LBP2 will be prematurely delivered, if delivered at all. It's a shame how truly ignorant and mindless the majority of people are, and so baffling to me that talentless attention [solicitors] and plagiarists are so common place in all walks of life, and in every medium no matter how insignificant, how new, or how niche. If it wasn't for ourselves as a community, we'd probably write the game off too... I wouldn't know any other good creators, and there would be no reciprocating cycle of recommendations and betterment. Serious creators stuck with it, people who loved create mode, and they congregate in forums like this... but serious players bolted for the next gaming experience as soon as possible, leaving behind only us, alot of kids, and casual gamers... as even that audience begins to dwindle, the creator base will shrink and start to move on as well. The casual gamers are definately most of the LBP audience... I've personally talked a whole bunch of people at my office into buying the game once they saw what was REALLY out there. And a lot of them use my hearted levels solely for finding things to play. But at the same time, the initial "cutesy" look and floaty nature of the games doesn't help either. In the long run, having settings to create a tighter experience would go a long way - this is the kind of thing the creator doesn't have any control over.

2009-06-19 14:58:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Anyway, thats not really my point. LBP is a community with a very large number of members who want to play like this. They have as much right to do so as you do, regardless of what people here might think. You can't stop them, MM and Sony can't stop them and probably don't want to. It will carry on. All you can do is choose how much you let it bother you, so rise above it. I agree, people have a right to play the game however they want. And you're right, MM can't (and shouldn't) stop people from playing the game how they want to. My biggest problem is what you mention yourself, which is that it is impossible to find the truly great LBP levels without coming to a secondary source, such as this amazing forum. I think that until MM and Sony fix the in-game search and browsing tools so that the game's most impressive and amazing levels can be found without recourse to an external site, then people have the right to resent the spam that obstructs good levels from the exposure they deserve.

2009-06-19 15:13:00 Author: CheesyMcFly Posts: 211

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I see a large amount of what you are saying ninja, but I don't think you can blame the large quantity of rubbish user content as the main reason the hardcore don't go for this game. The marketing, IMO, is the main reason. Sony killed the game for 90% of hardcore gamers because of the way the game is marketed and presented. I wrote the game off before buying it, as a cutesy, limited, gimmicky platformer. Based upon how Sony had marketed it. I would never have bought it, but it came with my PS3 as part of the best deal I could get, so I ended up playing it just to see what the fuss was about. Decided it was something mildly entertaining and slightly addictive for when I had some drunk mates round the flat. Pure casual game, certainly not something that worthwhile. Had a bosch in create, thought it was limited and basic and gave up with it. Eventually I came back to create and realised some of the sophistication of it and got hooked. Then I looked around at what was online. My point is that wrote the game off, several times, as basic and crap, based upon the way the game was presented to me and the rest of the public, nothing to do with the user content. My point is that by pushing that simple, basic, cute, easy to use, dumbed-down format and hiding the complexity as much as they possibly could, both in the advertising and marketing and also in-game, they have created prejudice from the hardcore community. I'm not saying that the community levels don't contribute, but look at the adverts... This game was never going to reach the majority of hardcore gamers, because that was never Sony's intention. They have many other games that appeal to the hardcore, but with LBP they were aiming at the casual market that Nintendo owns. And they have done well. And yes I agree it's selfish and inconsiderate to spam peoples levels and detract attention from other people whose creations are more deserving, but I also think it's selfish to say that because someone else having fun is annoying to you, they shouldn't be allowed to have their fun. I think that until MM and Sony fix the in-game search and browsing tools so that the game's most impressive and amazing levels can be found without recourse to an external site, then people have the right to resent the spam that obstructs good levels from the exposure they deserve. Oh yeah, that would be great. And as I've stated elsewhere, I think any search enhancements should include facilities to make H4H easier - i.e. to help the H4Her get in touch with each other and not with with the serious creators. But I still tihnk that worrying about it in the meantime is just a waste of time.

2009-06-19 15:15:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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The casual gamers are definately most of the LBP audience... I've personally talked a whole bunch of people at my office into buying the game once they saw what was REALLY out there. And a lot of them use my hearted levels solely for finding things to play. But at the same time, the initial "cutesy" look and floaty nature of the games doesn't help either. In the long run, having settings to create a tighter experience would go a long way - this is the kind of thing the creator doesn't have any control over. Definitely... tweaking could be beneficial. Alot of gamers I know are totally put off by the floaty physics and what appears to be imprecise platforming. It's not really... it's by far the deepest and most responsive sidescrolling controls I've ever grown accustomed to, but even gaming journalists vocalized this opinion alot. Just like their reviews and over-priced, illogical and hypocritical opinions (lol, rant starting), they are stating subjective as objective, and their voice holds alot of sway regardless and effects the opinions of others who'll buy into any popular opinion without a second thought. Here's an example from the article on the Contra project by Patrick Kleepak - "Contra requires precision movements; something LittleBigPlanet doesn't concern itself with." That's the general perception, and accepted understanding of the controls. Honestly... I don't know any other platformer so precise that standing position, running and falling momentum, foothold and physics in general have to be calculated instinctively in order to skillfully navigate a challenging level in this game. They're by nature loose controls to accommodate a wide variety of level designs, but when it comes down to it, sackboy in a properly designed level is the epitome of potential finesse.

2009-06-19 15:33:00 Author: Unknown User

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I absolutely agree with this - but tweaking could definately allow the different gaming styles to benefit. Even though I got used to it and now have no problem, I remember when I was first playing LittleBigPlanet and it seemed floaty. It still seems a bit floaty when trying to perform precision landings - but, hey - every design has trade-offs.

2009-06-19 16:05:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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LBP could and SHOULD have been marketed another way. They should have showned and made the hardcore gamer understand that it was the most precise, awesome and first time ever TRUE PHYSICS platformers. And that the create mode was actually deep. Hardcore gamers don't need months and months of creating hype. When they would have gotten them they could focus the last few month on the accessibility and sackboy customisation. But no, they went on the accessibility and customisation all the time. .

2009-06-20 05:32:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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