Archive: 14 posts

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Hi all, I've got just one more technical hurddle before I finish my next level. I've been pondering the issue but think I'll enlist the experts for some opinions before I settle on an answer... Here's what I've got. There is a large lift, on which sackboy will rise if (and only if) he brings a timed explosive. Along the shaft of the lift are several "safe areas" that will reverse the timer as the bomb passes (if sack aligns the bomb propperly). By using the passing safe areas, Sack can get the bomb to the top of the lift and on to the next challenge. Poor execution of the challenge results in explosive failure! Here's the problem. The lift moves slowly enough for Sack to move the bomb as needed and not run out of time, but if he fails (bomb blows up) and returns to the spawn point the elevator has to return to it's original position so Sack can try again. Easy, no problem with the logic here. The problem is that the lift takes FOREVERto return, leaving Sack twiddling his thumbs for waaaay too long. What to do? Here's some ideas I've been thinking about to solve: 1) flipper return-- haven't tried it yet, but I suspect the length of the piston and fit in the shaft will prevent this from functioning well. If it works though we're done here. Let's assume for now it won't work. 2) give Sack something to do while the lift takes it's sweet time getting there. I thought I might insert a little secret room that opens up, or some sort of mini-game here. My problem with that is that it sort of rewards failure. 3) build self-contained lift apparatus that can be captured and respawned in the starting position, rather than waiting for the retraction. Any number of technical issues could occur here... but it might work 4) put the checkpoint on the lift so failure doesn't set you back at all. if I go with this, then what's the point of the challenge in the first place? Would love to see some additional options here! What can you come up with?

2009-06-05 17:34:00 Author: AAAlone Posts: 71

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You could also use a crane system where a crane will lift the elevator and letgo if the sackboy falss/is out of the elevator. Send me an invite and i'll show you an example later.

2009-06-05 18:05:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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How about just emitting the platform/lift but not the scenery around? Then you simply emit a platform which starts at the bottom and moves slowly up. It's a simple matter of using mag keys and switches to emit a new platform when the bomb blows. Or have a proximity switch on the last checkpoint which emits the platform/lift. Simples.

2009-06-05 19:15:00 Author: Frogmeister Posts: 236

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^^yep. I would just build the elevator block itself, seperately from the level... meaning the piston is not attached to the ground, but to a slab that lets the elevator "rest" perfectly snug at the bottom of the elevator shaft at a perfectly level height for sackboy to walk onto as per usual. You're going to need to be able to capture this elevator as an object, but first set it up to operate the same way it is now. Inside of the elevator, cut out a square, and attach a brain. Make sure the square is big enough for the brain and for an emitter to pop a paintball into the same space above the brain at a high velocity to "pop" it an dissolve the elevator when it reaches it's destination. A dissolve material elevator won't work, since explosives will rip it apart and possible prevent the elevator from reaching it's intended destination. What you'll need to trigger the paintball emitter (1 shot, 1 max emitted, 1 at a time, 3 second life time etc) is a magnetic key on the elevator, color coded not to interfere with anything else. A key will need to be at the top of the shaft to align with where the elevator stops... once it connects with the key, it should fire the paintball and "kill" the elevator. You'll need an emitter at the bottom that will just continuously replace the elevator with a new one when destroyed. NOW!... to prevent the elevator from dissolving with sackboy on it when he safely reaches the top... you'll need a sensor switch set up to trigger some dissolve material. The key that triggers the paintball-brain kill emitter will need to be dissolved when a sackperson is up top. The radius for this will of course need to be just right so as not to prematurely dissolve it before sackboy's officially completed his task - even if he does dissolve it, and then die causing himself to respawn at the bottom of the elevator, the dissolve key can be emitted by another emitter that's triggered by a one-shot sensor switch with infinite life time, and the sensor switch that dissolves it attached to the object itself when emitted. It will take a slight bit of trial and error and testing, but should work flawlessly. Hopefully this explanation makes sense, but that's how I would do it. You'll also want to stop sackboyfrom going under the elevator or in the way of the emitter too... so just a door that only opens when the platforms at the bottom, or some gas to prevent him from walking underneath will solve that.

2009-06-05 19:41:00 Author: Unknown User

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Wow that's a convoluted solution to a simple problem Way way simpler solution than the above: Pull the lift up as you are currently doing, with a piston or a chain set to directional. Change that chain /piston to strength 5 or 6. It should still work fine. check it though. You can prob go up to 8 or 9 if need be. at the bottom of the lift shaft add another chain, set to time 1s and strength 10 and connect it to the lift platform. Add to this the SAME directional control as you use for the normal piston. If you set this up right (you might need to toggle the backwards on one of the connectors) you have a lift that goes up very slowly, but comes down in 1s, resetting before the sack gets back to it. Chains can only pull and can be used to overpower weaker chains and especially weaker pistons in ONE DIRECTION only. The possibilities are endless. Seriously.

2009-06-05 19:56:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Wow that's a convoluted solution to a simple problem Way way simpler solution than the above: Pull the lift up as you are currently doing, with a piston or a chain set to directional. Change that chain /piston to strength 5 or 6. It should still work fine. check it though. You can prob go up to 8 or 9 if need be. at the bottom of the lift shaft add another chain, set to time 1s and strength 10 and connect it to the lift platform. Add to this the SAME directional control as you use for the normal piston. If you set this up right (you might need to toggle the backwards on one of the connectors) you have a lift that goes up very slowly, but comes down in 1s, resetting before the sack gets back to it. Chains can only pull and can be used to overpower weaker chains and especially weaker pistons in ONE DIRECTION only. The possibilities are endless. Seriously. It's true! This one trick gives you so many more options. Different speeds for ascent and descent are just one practical example.

2009-06-05 20:15:00 Author: dcf Posts: 468

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Wow that's a convoluted solution to a simple problem Way way simpler solution than the above: Pull the lift up as you are currently doing, with a piston or a chain set to directional. Change that chain /piston to strength 5 or 6. It should still work fine. check it though. You can prob go up to 8 or 9 if need be. at the bottom of the lift shaft add another chain, set to time 1s and strength 10 and connect it to the lift platform. Add to this the SAME directional control as you use for the normal piston. If you set this up right (you might need to toggle the backwards on one of the connectors) you have a lift that goes up very slowly, but comes down in 1s, resetting before the sack gets back to it. Chains can only pull and can be used to overpower weaker chains and especially weaker pistons in ONE DIRECTION only. The possibilities are endless. Seriously. Nice, that is alot better.

2009-06-05 20:53:00 Author: Unknown User

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Wow that's a convoluted solution to a simple problem Way way simpler solution than the above: Pull the lift up as you are currently doing, with a piston or a chain set to directional. Change that chain /piston to strength 5 or 6. It should still work fine. check it though. You can prob go up to 8 or 9 if need be. at the bottom of the lift shaft add another chain, set to time 1s and strength 10 and connect it to the lift platform. Add to this the SAME directional control as you use for the normal piston. If you set this up right (you might need to toggle the backwards on one of the connectors) you have a lift that goes up very slowly, but comes down in 1s, resetting before the sack gets back to it. Chains can only pull and can be used to overpower weaker chains and especially weaker pistons in ONE DIRECTION only. The possibilities are endless. Seriously. Wow! It looks like we have a winner here. I definately like the flexibility built into this solution! This is the method I will attempt first (If a flipper return fails). The emitter solution is one that I had considered, however my approach was simply to set the "max emmited at one time" setting to 1, so that when the new lift assembly appears, the old dissappears. Careful positioning of the spawn would be crucial (but brains and paint aren't needed). This technique is used throughout the level to ensure that bomb fragments don't block the path of a newly emitted bomb. Thanks for all the ideas, folks. I knew you wouldn't let me down! Look for the new level, NERVES OF STEEL, this weekend! I'm thinking Saturday for publication (baring discovery of new bugs)!

2009-06-05 21:47:00 Author: AAAlone Posts: 71

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Flipper return is awkward. You will need to use a chain as the flipper anyway as a flipper piston will overpower everything. Also, if you move a moderate distance, flippers have this effect of just imploding whatever they are attached to. 0.1s pistons / chains can do this as well if they are long enough (which is why I said 1s). You can also connect the pullback chain to a second directional input linked to a prox on the checkpoint. This will make the system truely flexible. Gimme a shout if you have any problems.

2009-06-05 22:28:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Also, flippers must complete their motion before they can try again! So if sackboy failed early in the left he'd still be stuck waiting.

2009-06-06 01:24:00 Author: dcf Posts: 468

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actually, If you use a flipper chain, set to flip inwards, with a short time you can pull the lift back down. Although if you make the time too short, the flipper won't actually pull it all the way (for some reason) and if the distance is to long, things just implode. Flippers are a nasty solution to most jobs. I've found some uses for them, but I'd advise you not to use flippers unless there is no other way.

2009-06-07 19:32:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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As expected the flipper return caused the elevator to self-destruct. CRUNCH! The strength 8 piston up with a strenght 10 chain down works like a lucky charm. Thanks for that advice, rtm223! (and to everyone for their input as well!) This was the final hurdle before publication. Check out its implementation in my newly published level: Nerves of Steel!

2009-06-08 03:12:00 Author: AAAlone Posts: 71

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Yay for me being right I'll make sure I check this out. A side note about flippers seflt destructing things - this is a very simple way to destroy anything, without having to actaully crush using an external device. I did use to think that the implosing effect exerted no force, on things around it, but I've managed to cataputl my sackboy by accident using it :s Still useful occasionally though.

2009-06-08 08:56:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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lol, the elevator section came out just about as long a trip as I imagined it being. Worked like a charm, rtm.

2009-06-09 15:03:00 Author: Unknown User

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