Archive: 26 posts

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In a cave section I've sort of designed this big cavern area where where you do a pit of platforming, then go off down some tunnels, then come back out in the cavern further up. More platforming occurs, but there are no hazards below you - if you fall, you end up where you were a few minutes ago. You will need to suicide to get back to your checkpoint. Bearing in mind it's not possible to fall and trigger another (previous) checkpoint, is this a bad idea, from a gaming point of view? I'm struggling to be objective about it.

2009-05-14 19:03:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I think that it is fine to do that, so long as there is no chance of triggering a checkpoint. And also, you should make it an unlimited checkpoint so they don't have to kill themselves

2009-05-14 19:08:00 Author: Coxy224 Posts: 2645

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i think if you can make it work and look good, it would be fantastic!

2009-05-14 19:09:00 Author: redmagus Posts: 667

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I think that it is fine to do that, so long as there is no chance of triggering a checkpoint. And also, you should make it an unlimited checkpoint so they don't have to kill themselves Haha I hadn't thought of that. Having to suicide on your last life, that would be such a slap in the face! As for making it look good, at the moment I still need to suss out the camera angles because it's not really obvious until you fall that that is where you are, I'll have to have a think.

2009-05-14 20:23:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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This is such an annoying thing to happen, and I hate having to climb all the way back up again. However, perhaps you could trigger an emitter will dispenses a permanent lasting gas on the lower level. You could do this for every platform.

2009-05-14 20:28:00 Author: Bear Posts: 2079

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Make sure you seal off anyway out, or crush all checkpoints or something.

2009-05-14 20:35:00 Author: ARD Posts: 4291

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49dra: There is no need to crush the checkpoints, if you trigger an old one, then you would have made a concious decision to, they are placed down tunnels far enough that no accidental triggering could occur. If a player chooses to run through the whole section again rather than suicide, then I'm happy to let them. ghost: thanks for you input: This is such an annoying thing to happen, and I hate having to climb all the way back up again. This is the reason I was asking, as I really think it will annoy some players. Climbing back up again wouldn't be an issue as there may well be a medium sized section in between. It would be a suicide thing if it happened, but I don't get why suicide would annoy people. So you fall and manually retry, I don't get why this is worse than falling on gas? It's not like you've fallen off the level or into a hole where I forgot to put a lethality. However, perhaps you could trigger an emitter will dispenses a permanent lasting gas on the lower level. You could do this for every platform. The point is I really don't want to do this. In this particular level I'd rather ditch the cavern and separate the areas than do this. Simply because I'm aiming for a realistic feel. Not actually realistic, but it everything has to make sense. Suddenly finding lethal gas where you were happily running about before just makes no sense. Maybe I should split the sections out...

2009-05-14 23:38:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Making the player re-play a part of the level if they screw up? That's ok in my opinion, they shouldn't have screwed up in the first place. Besides, they have an option to either re-play that part or loose a life. I have something simsilar, tho much more evil in my level in reogress. >:] So yeah, i'd say, levae it like that!

2009-05-15 00:28:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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Actually I think it is a great idea. I have the same thing in an early section of the level I am working on, trying to play around with punishing the player not with death but having to try again or the shame of making suicide. This way you get them by there proud. Those enthusiastic enough will try again to get through it without dying and the not so good players can easily get back up OR wait until a better player gets up and kill themselfs to get to his position. The whole concept of punishment is a tough one in game design and you used one of the nicer concepts of it.

2009-05-15 08:56:00 Author: Fjonan Posts: 359

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Well, as it seems like there are mixed views on this, I'm gonna stick with my original plan - I can't please everyone and I had absolutely no intention of trying to, so mixed opinion is basically a green light in my book Thanks for your input people.

2009-05-15 18:52:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Making the player re-play a part of the level if they screw up? That's ok in my opinion, they shouldn't have screwed up in the first place. Besides, they have an option to either re-play that part or loose a life. I have something simsilar, tho much more evil in my level in reogress. >:] So yeah, i'd say, levae it like that! I agree. Maybe they'll be less likely to screw up a 2nd time after being forced to backtrack Just dont overdo it, I say. If the section they must backtrack through is too long, it'll probably be too annoying, and may cause self-destructing.

2009-05-16 12:09:00 Author: Bridget Posts: 334

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Just dont overdo it, I say. If the section they must backtrack through is too long, it'll probably be too annoying, and may cause self-destructing. Thats kind of the point, they probably will have to self destruct. In terms of overdoing it, it's not gonna be a major feature, most of the rest of the level you will die if you mess up, it's just I can't force hazards in this section. I just made a rather bad diagram of what I mean: http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/rtm223/cavern.gif So green is checkpoints, red x's are hazards. The platformy bits are a mixture of jumping, climbing, grabbing, swinging etc. So you come in at (a) do some platforming and then leave the cavern (c). A while later, depending on what I decide goes between (c) and (d), you come back to the cavern. During platform bits (e), if you fail you drop to the bottom, probably not hitting a hazard to be honest. You then would self-destruct to get back to (d).

2009-05-16 13:09:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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The problem with suicide is that it's usually rather tacky, it just causes me to think that the creator has forgotten about the possibility.

2009-05-16 13:12:00 Author: Bear Posts: 2079

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Ghost i agree with you normally, but then every time I've had to suicide, it's because someone forgot to put gas down a hole or you've fallen off the map. IMO in this case it's something very different. Also, the first section of (e) is all on ceilings, dangling over the rest of the cavern. I can't really have forgotten you could fall of the ceiling lol.

2009-05-16 13:17:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Y'know, I think I'll have to see it to fully understand, so I'll shush.

2009-05-16 16:37:00 Author: Bear Posts: 2079

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Seems like a fair idea, though you'll probably want to destroy (a).

2009-05-16 16:46:00 Author: dawesbr Posts: 3280

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I actually can not stand when creators use gas as corral or barricade. More often than not it is everywhere... more often then not it does not fit with the overall theme of the level and is clearly just a tool to design playable areas. I think that's lazy or at the least, not very well plotted. I say, let the cards fall where they may. (That's not to say I want creators permanently dropping me out of levels in a behind the scenes tour...) but the exploration is momentarily exhilarating and then the sense of doom sets in. Self-destruct isn't always the answer but on occasional, although it hurts, it's fine. Additionally, if I'm falling... I think it's great gameplay to have to self-destruct before I trigger another checkpoint... I'VE BEEN IN A PANICK TO DO SO because its not in the normal repertoire of moves! Personally, in your particular case, I'd put a custom sticker at the bottom just in case the player does fall... You may use it if you'd like it, I will now be using it in all my levels, where applicable. http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=402&pictureid=3848

2009-05-16 17:54:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308

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As long as there's no chance of triggering a previous checkpoint, then I'm fine with it. I'd even say that it would look and feel better then falling into random gas.

2009-05-17 14:51:00 Author: lk9988 Posts: 1077

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Gravel, for some reason that picture took me a couple of seconds to understand! Being slow today... I think I'm gonna stick with not being able to activate the checkpoint though.

2009-05-18 10:13:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Can the bottom of the cavern not be lined with spikes.. thats like indiana jones.. or like spikes but covered with layer to conceal that look like potruding rocks or something..

2009-05-18 18:23:00 Author: CreateNPlay Posts: 1266

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Not really, if you look at the diagram, platformy bits (b) quite often breaks your fall and I can't emmit anything onto them, as I'm pretty set on not emmiting any hazards onto a place that was previously safe.

2009-05-18 18:36:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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How do you feel about, after the (d) checkpoint, putting some kind of rope that when you reach (d), you activate and it falls down to the floor so that when you fall to the floor, you can just grab it and it will pull you right back up to the begining of checkpoint (d). The red thing at the end of the rope would be a grab material that pulls you back up. Unless this interferes with somthing. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g136/Drabaz/cavern.gif

2009-05-18 20:31:00 Author: Drabaz Posts: 67

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I much prefer dying to having to walk back or suicide, it drives me crazy and takes a lot of time either way. (I know suicide doesn't seem like it takes time, but with the walking around to see what happened, and the waiting to pop, it's annoying.) So, I'd say find a way to kill the player or give them a shortcut back up to the level they were on that takes very little time.(Like what drabaz said)

2009-05-18 21:09:00 Author: Walter-Kovacs Posts: 542

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I much prefer dying to having to walk back or suicide, it drives me crazy and takes a lot of time either way. (I know suicide doesn't seem like it takes time, but with the walking around to see what happened, and the waiting to pop, it's annoying.) So, I'd say find a way to kill the player or give them a shortcut back up to the level they were on that takes very little time.(Like what drabaz said) If it annoys you, then it encourages you not to fail there again. And besides, why chance screwing up a part of the level when its technically inessesary to do so?

2009-05-19 05:10:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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Drabaz, that's a nice idea in a general sense, although: 1. It's a cave, the only mechanical parts I have so far are used to animate some militant flora and for rockslides etc. The lack of anything mechanical is a deliberate contrast to the other areas of the level which are very heavily industialised. 2. Pressing square, left, down, x for three seconds is quicker than running to find a pillow on a chain, grabbing it and waiting for it to pull you up. 3. Annoyingly, in this case, the pillow would give you really easy access to a secret area that is supposed to be a reward for exploring, rather than being rubbish. Walter Kovacs, if a player is too prideful to self destruct, they will likely land near some nice spikey thorn bushes and they can throw themselves upon those. I'm pretty sure I've made this decision in this particular case. Everyone feel free to discuss the matter in a more general sense, or tell me I've made the wrong decision.

2009-05-19 13:35:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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What was the theme of your level? I understand about the mechanical stuff and making everything look natural. But you could disguise the grab material as a thin piece of rope. It would be the same thing as getting to checkpoint (d) and finding a rope on the ground, then attatching the rope to the ceiling and drop the other end of the rope to the ground. I completely understand if you don't want to use the rope though.

2009-05-19 18:06:00 Author: Drabaz Posts: 67

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