Archive: 21 posts

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Seeing as Creator Pack 1 is going to launch in a few days (hopefully ), ive been busy gettin my levels ready for a relaunch with newly updated checkpoints and jetpacks and whatnot... and i got to thinking "will unlimited life checkpoints change LBP for the worse?". I certainly understand their use as a creator, seeing as i can put in one checkpoint per boss battle instead of the bajillion i used before... but what about as a player? Does anyone else think that maybe these checkpoints will be used into oblivion as i suspect they might, to the point where one has to dodge ridiculously deadly obstacles on the basis that you have unlimited lives to do it. Or, on the other side of the spammage idea, people will be so accustomed to the unlimited lives deal that challenges cease to be of interest because there is nothing stopping them from attempting it over and over again? As much as i hate having to restart a level, somehow i think it will be worse if the thrill of finishing is diminished by the fact that skill is removed because one can repeat a challenge unto eternity. anyway... just my thoughts, anyone else think these might change levels drastically, or am i just being paranoid?

2009-04-21 02:58:00 Author: Burnvictim42 Posts: 3322

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Any good challenging levels will use this to the minimum. Any bad, not worthy levels will exploit this to death. In other words, good creators will know when and when not to use these. And not so organize creators will use this all the time. And when used correctly it will make things a lot better than rather worse. Do you get what i'm getting at?

2009-04-21 03:03:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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I remember reading somewhere on Mm's blogs that someone suggested a checkpoint where you can specify the amount of lives you want that checkpoint to have. Sounds like a brilliant idea!

2009-04-21 03:08:00 Author: crazymario Posts: 657

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Any good challenging levels will use this to the minimum. Any bad, not worthy levels will exploit this to death. In other words, good creators will know when and when not to use these. And not so organize creators will use this all the time. And when used correctly it will make things a lot better than rather worse. Do you get what i'm getting at? yea i get what you're getting at... i just feel there are a lot more creators out there who will exploit this, and seeing as you can only play the spotlight levels so many times... that quickplay option gets pretty tempting =/ I know its not going to affect the skilled creators, but my concern was for the rest of the general public, and the poor saps who don't get reccomendations from LBPC

2009-04-21 03:15:00 Author: Burnvictim42 Posts: 3322

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Unfortuanatly I don't have time to fully read your post, but in answer to your question, 100% no. My level Prologue NEEDS these checkpoints, as they are vital to how the level is designed. It is meant to be a test of Trial & Error and figuring out how to get past the obstacles. My inspiration was from I Wanna Be The Guy (google it if you've never heard of it). If anything, it could save the game as many players get frustrated if they have to restart the level.

2009-04-21 03:45:00 Author: ryryryan Posts: 3767

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I agree with your post on some points, like how people are going to make almost impossible and frustrating levels, and there only reasoning is that you have infinite lives so it shouldn't matter. So yeah, it might have a bad impact, but if you look at all the good it brings, I think it wins over all the negative stuff, plus there will always be new things coming out, and there will always be a group of people that use it for the worse.

2009-04-21 04:08:00 Author: Whalio Cappuccino Posts: 5250

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I'm torn.... I think they're a great idea, however players already give you grief if you have ANY challenge and don't use a double-life checkpoint. The next step is players low-rating your level because you have a bit of challenge and the checkpoint isn't unlimited. So, I'm kind of wondering whether it will invite more bad behavior among players. I suppose we'll see, but if history shows anything....

2009-04-21 04:18:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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I'm torn.... I think they're a great idea, however players already give you grief if you have ANY challenge and don't use a double-life checkpoint. The next step is players low-rating your level because you have a bit of challenge and the checkpoint isn't unlimited. So, I'm kind of wondering whether it will invite more bad behavior among players. I suppose we'll see, but if history shows anything.... THERE. Exactly what I was about to post. This might just happen. I wouldn't be surprised at all. People are already harsh at rating as the game is now. .

2009-04-21 05:25:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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Yeah, of course unlimited checkpoints will have their disadvantages - mainly the overuse of them and increase of difficulty. But there will also be lots of good uses in them, such as survival challenge practice etc. So on the balance, it shouldn't be too bad

2009-04-21 06:50:00 Author: Coxy224 Posts: 2645

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Those checkpoints will revolutionize the puzzle levels to come. I personally would use them as a "quicksave" in my level for example after the first half of the level or on some crossroads you come by multiple times. There will be a lot of bad examples and a lot of good but LBP land is not doomed. Things change and that is a good thing. Having more options is always a good thing. Just imagine a LBP without double life checkpoints and ask yourself again, if having the choice between those 3 checkpoints is really a bad thing.

2009-04-21 07:22:00 Author: Fjonan Posts: 359

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they'll be used to death in some levels.. mostly H4H's i'm sure the more talented creators will use it wisely. they wouldn't want to take away the challenge completly, and they definatly wouldn't want players using the unlimited lives to their advantage

2009-04-21 08:22:00 Author: Dexiro Posts: 2100

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they'll be used to death in some levels.. mostly H4H's But why would you need a Infinite checkpoint if your only going 10 seconds to the right on a rocket cheetah?

2009-04-21 12:02:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904

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But why would you need a Infinite checkpoint if your only going 10 seconds to the right on a rocket cheetah? Some H4H guy might hang a checkpoint in the air and an emitter that emits a rocket car right under it, and some emitted bombs azt the end. if you crash into them yo go boom to checkpoint, into another car etc...

2009-04-21 12:26:00 Author: oldage Posts: 2824

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cool! An unlimitted rocket car level! LETS BUILD ONE! All the H4Hers will be trapped for eternity!

2009-04-21 12:27:00 Author: Fjonan Posts: 359

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cool! An unlimitted rocket car level! LETS BUILD ONE! All the H4Hers will be trapped for eternity! That would imply that they actually play the level. But H4Hers playing a level? That's ... most unusual.:arg: To be serious. I really need this cheackpoint if i decide to do a remake of my Sidescroller. I just can fit in one checkpoint and a double life checkpoint simply isn't enough. So that would be the perfect solution since time should be the limiting factor there.

2009-04-21 12:39:00 Author: Vanemiera Posts: 329

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Can you name a tool in the littlebigplanet toolbox that can't be used to ruin a level? Ok, probably you can, but you get the point. Some people are going to use the tools available to them to make rubbish levels, just see how long it takes to get a good level on the "quick play" option. The only way to stop people doing this is to take away all of their creative tools. Then every level would be rubbish. Saying that, CCubage's point is pretty valid but it's a problem that already exists and is a problem with the userbase, not the tools.

2009-04-21 13:13:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Can you name a tool in the littlebigplanet toolbox that can't be used to ruin a level? The "Try Again" tool

2009-04-21 13:19:00 Author: Fjonan Posts: 359

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the idiots will abuse anything. the good creators will put it to good use. personally, i'll probably change all my checkpoints to infinite. at no point in any of my levels will players benefit from just running repeatedly at, say a boss, hitting him twice then dying - repeat til you win. nor do i think that anyone would benefit from being sent back to the start for not being able to do something in 3 or 6 attempts. of course this just applies to my levels, not everyone's the same. any new tools/gadgets can only be a good thing for creators. H4H folk will do their thing regardless.

2009-04-21 15:44:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096

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Can you name a tool in the littlebigplanet toolbox that can't be used to ruin a level? Ok, probably you can, but you get the point. Some people are going to use the tools available to them to make rubbish levels, just see how long it takes to get a good level on the "quick play" option. The only way to stop people doing this is to take away all of their creative tools. Then every level would be rubbish. Saying that, CCubage's point is pretty valid but it's a problem that already exists and is a problem with the userbase, not the tools. No. There are tools that cannot create a community movement and certain others that can. The checkpoint is extremely more influent than pistons, bolts and whatnot. It influence the whole design of your level and set the mood for MANY players. The checkpoint are affecting the player's psychology directly while many other tools don't. This means there totally is tools that are dangerous and some other that actually can't ruin anything. Look at how a mere trophy, something you don't have to do, something that shouldn't have been significant enough to skew community but it totally did. Now the difference between having 4 lives to complete a level compared to "infinite" is something huge. Everybody uses checkpoints, a majority of people could adopt the infinite ones for multiple reasons like to make an easier level (= better rating and more hearts, something they already are looking for) What MIGHT happen is that the general difficulty of user levels in the game might drop causing harder levels to actually stand out more, and not in a good way. People are already getting "annoyed" and "frustrated" extremely easily in this game and most people don't do "restart" when they are out of lives. This might mean that if you use the old checkpoints, your "frustrating" and "annoying" tags will be used even more on your levels. Consequently, the rating and hearting will suffer. One cool and easy thing they could do to prevent the userbase degradation is to add 2 fields with your level name and description: "Difficulty level" and "Category". Then reflect this in the search engine options and voila. .

2009-04-21 18:29:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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Exactly! Just TRY to not use an infinite checkpoint from now on. Your level will get all kinds of comments like "Too hard!!!! You need infinite checkpoints!!!!" even if your level requires minimal effort. Level's in general will rotate more towards the "Bioshock" methodology - you can kill EVERYTHING with a little wrench if you don't mind constantly going back to your save point. Now, from my standpoint I plan on just going with the flow. After about 23 years of experience I always just use the tools in the way people will most enjoy them, so I will probably design around infinite checkpoints, but make them slightly farther apart and make the goal of the level more point-based since you lose points when you die. It's not that I necessarily WANT to do this, but I probably will simply because there's no way to set difficulty and category, as RangerZero said.

2009-04-21 18:50:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Oh, thats a good point that you brought up there- even if you have infinite lives to do something, you'll still end up losing points. That will even the playing field somewhat in regards to a high score I'm still a little worried how the overall community will go (lets face it, there are more H4H and empty levels out there than decent ones), but you all raise valid points. You know, it might be fun to make a level where you rotate from infinite to finite checkpoints...

2009-04-21 23:08:00 Author: Burnvictim42 Posts: 3322

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