Archive: 17 posts

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Ok, why can I not create what I want? Whenever I make something with rods to stick it through another plane and look suspended, it starts to twist counter clock wise. I just made a rough version of Trap T's homing device, and it twists! Counter clockwise again until it breaks! Also when I use more than a few wobble bolts on a boss, to make him transform or open up to different stages of a fight, the wobble stops working and it simply spins like a motor bolt - even in create when you select the wobble bolt it shows the Angle it should be stopping at, but then the yellow line just spins around and around and around. This really irritates me becuase I could make some REDICULOUS stuff but as soon as I get a little complex everything breaks! It hates me. I have seen others do this stuff successfully, why can't I? Anyone else have these problems?

2009-04-04 23:22:00 Author: LuckyShot Posts: 713

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Nope, never happened to me. The only problem i've had with pistons is when the piston won't lift whatever i want it to lift. And the wobble bolt is whenever it doesn't wobble in the designated area. But other than that nothing like what you said has happened that i remember.

2009-04-04 23:26:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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Guess I'll make a video... I'm so frustrated right now I can't think. Grrrrr. My bosses in my last level Kid Rocket's Revenge were insanely epic, they flew around the screen and chased and evaded with proximity switches and gate logic, but they were suspended by rods and thus rotated counter clockwise on their crazy contraptions until they broke, so now one is motionless, and the other just goes left and right

2009-04-04 23:30:00 Author: LuckyShot Posts: 713

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I have had a similar problem with the wobble bolt. For me it turned out that this was the problem (and it strikes me as a bug/glitch, cuz I don't think it should work this way): If the rotation is set to 360 degress or more and a directional switch is attached, it just starts spinning in whatever direction the switch is set to. Once I put it back under 360, it worked as I expected (or if I took the switch off or changed it to On/Off). As for the pistons (you actually said rods - am I getting this confused ??), I have not had this problem. But I have learned to connect/disconnect, resize, place, delete, etc., etc. only in pause mode. Then hit play to make sure everything is hooked up right. For some reason stuff breaks on me all the time when I work in play mode.

2009-04-04 23:33:00 Author: v0rtex Posts: 1878

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I had a boss that opened up with 90 degree wobble bolts, one for the arm to open set in one direction, and one set in the opposite direction at the end of the arm attached to a turret so the turret stays facing the same way as the arm rotates out - and just randomly the wobble bolts will glitch out and spin around and around like a motor bolt. As for rods/pistons. I use rods to suspend stuff in the middle or foreground, when it's actually held up by devices in the background. I then hide everything in the background with a thin layer of material between foreground and background. This is a sweet trick but usually ends up with the thing I suspend rotating until it breaks. See DCF's boss ai tutorial for more on this... Only it doesn't break on him! Just me.

2009-04-04 23:59:00 Author: LuckyShot Posts: 713

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Ok, why can I not create what I want? Whenever I make something with rods to stick it through another plane and look suspended, it starts to twist counter clock wise. I just made a rough version of Trap T's homing device, and it twists! Counter clockwise again until it breaks! Also when I use more than a few wobble bolts on a boss, to make him transform or open up to different stages of a fight, the wobble stops working and it simply spins like a motor bolt - even in create when you select the wobble bolt it shows the Angle it should be stopping at, but then the yellow line just spins around and around and around. This really irritates me becuase I could make some REDICULOUS stuff but as soon as I get a little complex everything breaks! It hates me. I have seen others do this stuff successfully, why can't I? Anyone else have these problems? Make your pistons stiff. Wobble bolts can be difficult since it's hard to tell (unless you test it) how the diagram is related to your object. They yellow line there is not always gonna be the bottom of your object. And make sure you didn't paste your stuff unintentionally. Also, check nothing got bolted unintentionally, too. I'm not sure if that was helpful.:blush:

2009-04-05 02:07:00 Author: uzman Posts: 209

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I wish it helped man, I really do - I de constructed and reconstructed every part of it over and over. I have a grasp on the rotating thing for now - just use minimal rods or pistons, when they fight each other the physics engine assumes one is stonger than the next and starts to rotate them all. I don't think I will be happy with wobble bolts until there is a patch for the exact problem I'm having. I wish I could show MM in person exactly how it randomly ignores the parameters of angle I give wobble bolts and they just spin in one direction forever and ever.

2009-04-05 04:52:00 Author: LuckyShot Posts: 713

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I've found a lot of these problems arise from placing pistons in series. Twisting: When you place two stiff rods or pistons in series, the object in the middle can twist. This is because, although the pistons are stiff, the object can perform both translation and rotation. (See my suggestion to Mm for a material that can only do translational movement called Buoyant Material (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=9129). You can also vote for it here (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=9323).) So, if you have a set-up like this: [dark matter]<----piston1---->[wood block]<---piston2---->[target] Because you cannot attach pistons directly to each other, a material of some sort, in this case a wooden block, must be placed between pistons 1 and 2. One might think this set-up would move the target left and right as the pistons move as long as they are stiff. However, that is not what happens! Instead the weight of the [target] is applied to the right side of the wooden block by the piston. This forces the block to rotate clockwise and typically results in the device breaking. There is a way to solve this problem. First you must create a track. So instead of the above you instead do: [------------dark matter----------------------------------------------------] [dark matter]<----piston1---->[wood block]<---piston2---->[target] [------------dark matter----------------------------------------------------] This prevents the rotational movement. However, it can cause additional problems due to friction. (So you might want to use glass for the tracks.) I place wheels on my block and target so they can follow the track, top and bottom, without problem. You can see a collectable example of this done with 4 pistons in series in my boss AI tutorial level. The second thing that you must do is pay attention to weight. Sometimes you can get away with less structurally sound designs if your object doesn't weight very much. However, if you have heavy, fast moving parts, they will break apart as they apply their momentum to parts of the object you did not anticipate. Rotating bolts have a similar problem. Let's look at the previous example again. What happens if you attach a heavy object with a wobble or rotation bolt to the target? One would generally expect the object to behave like a piece of dark matter (except that it moves about left and right a little bit). However, this is not what happens. Again, the object can translate and rotate! This means the bolt can actually flip the light target around the heavy object, instead of the heavy object rotating around a fixed light target! Again this will almost always break the mechanism. The trick with rotation is to make the base as stable as possible, sometimes increasing its weight so it does not suffer unexpected movements. Strength: The strength issue is another tough one that gave me a lot of grief when using pistons in series. There's a certain order that piston speeds must be attached in. Either piston 1 needs to be faster than piston 2 or piston 2 needs to be faster than piston 1. I can't remember which way it is off the top of my head. If you do it backwards then one of the pistons won't move. I believe its that piston 2 must be faster than piston 1. I'll double check when I get a chance.

2009-04-05 12:30:00 Author: dcf Posts: 468

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Nice work there, I've had this problem (i think it's the same one): After attatching a teeny object to the huge background then sticking on a wobble bolt, the background would spin instead and snap. But on second thoughts, that doesn't sound like the same thing xD Anyway, nice find

2009-04-05 19:51:00 Author: Pinchanzee Posts: 805

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Nice work there, I've had this problem (i think it's the same one): After attatching a teeny object to the huge background then sticking on a wobble bolt, the background would spin instead and snap. But on second thoughts, that doesn't sound like the same thing xD Anyway, nice find It's basically the same thing Rotating bolts have a similar problem. Let's look at the previous example again. What happens if you attach a heavy object with a wobble or rotation bolt to the target? One would generally expect the object to behave like a piece of dark matter (except that it moves about left and right a little bit). However, this is not what happens. Again, the object can translate and rotate! This means the bolt can actually flip the light target around the heavy object, instead of the heavy object rotating around a fixed light target! Again this will almost always break the mechanism. The trick with rotation is to make the base as stable as possible, sometimes increasing its weight so it does not suffer unexpected movements.

2009-04-05 23:40:00 Author: dcf Posts: 468

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Ok, so I can't even get a golf club to swing at the end of a piston now!.. This is sooo frustrating. I need a piston to lower or raise the golf club so it can follow the contour of the course as it lowers or raises so you can take a second and third shot with the same club. But when I make it like so [fixed object]===piston===[block] and then place the golf club on the block with a wobble bolt, piston stregth 10 and stiff, wobble bolt stregth 10 mind you - the stupid club just droops to the ground and swings there barely back and forth. This happens even with a direction switch attached to the wobble bolt. BUT if I replace the piston with wood all the way to the fixed object, it miraculously works and the golf club pulls back and waits for the switch to be pressed, then it swings perfectly... BUT THEN I can't get it to go up and down to follow the course. The weight issue shouldn't matter when you set strength to 10, especially if the fixed object is either dark matter or attached to the ground. I am gonna cry - I can't ever get this to work, never more than two devices will work together because of momentum and weight but I swear I see other people having NO trouble with this.

2009-04-10 23:39:00 Author: LuckyShot Posts: 713

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Yeah, I've dealt with this issue also, and have found ways around it. If you attach material through a piston, and then attach another piston it is effected by the physics. In one of my levels I had to use the thrust of rockets to hold the affected material up, because after a while it would degrade and twist. But if there's any way to use a rocket off screen to keep the secondary material stable.... it's weird but it does work.

2009-04-11 00:01:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Ok, so I can't even get a golf club to swing at the end of a piston now!.. This is sooo frustrating. I need a piston to lower or raise the golf club so it can follow the contour of the course as it lowers or raises so you can take a second and third shot with the same club. But when I make it like so [fixed object]===piston===[block] and then place the golf club on the block with a wobble bolt, piston stregth 10 and stiff, wobble bolt stregth 10 mind you - the stupid club just droops to the ground and swings there barely back and forth. This happens even with a direction switch attached to the wobble bolt. BUT if I replace the piston with wood all the way to the fixed object, it miraculously works and the golf club pulls back and waits for the switch to be pressed, then it swings perfectly... BUT THEN I can't get it to go up and down to follow the course. The weight issue shouldn't matter when you set strength to 10, especially if the fixed object is either dark matter or attached to the ground. I am gonna cry - I can't ever get this to work, never more than two devices will work together because of momentum and weight but I swear I see other people having NO trouble with this. Place the block on wheels and create a track for it to roll on.

2009-04-11 00:45:00 Author: dcf Posts: 468

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I can't because it has to move up and down and left and right to follow the ball. So the entire track would also have to move each way... I give up on the golf thing I guess.

2009-04-11 00:50:00 Author: LuckyShot Posts: 713

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The best way to do this kind of thing is to build a support system behind the scenes, unfortunately. And it still may be possible. I did a similar thing in my Splat levels. Here was my design: I supported a piece of glass on dark matter and pulled the glass left and right a horizontal piston. Then I hung material on the glass using 2 pistons which would go up and down. This entire structure was completely hidden off screen. This support system allowed the piston-material-piston-material without causing an issue. The "twisting" thing also doesn't occur if the weight is hanging instead of pushing up. Most things can be done in LBP, but some things are a little more difficult to engineer.

2009-04-11 01:23:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Well my golf tech demo is copy-able - can ANYONE get a golf club to stick to the contraption in the background that swings? If so, I'll make you a sig! Lol

2009-04-11 18:07:00 Author: LuckyShot Posts: 713

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Well my golf tech demo is copy-able - can ANYONE get a golf club to stick to the contraption in the background that swings? If so, I'll make you a sig! Lol Can you make me a sig anyway?

2009-04-11 18:53:00 Author: ecowarrior Posts: 137

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