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#4

Register for LBP Karting Beta

Archive: 781 posts

Well, here are my thoughts on LBP karting from what Ive seen in the beta. Bear in mind, this post is just about all negative. It is due a little to the fact that Im not in the mood to have to learn another LBP creator all over again, something I have spent countless hours doing in the actual LBP games, not this MNR 2 game that someone decided if they added sackboy and a few LBP stickers, they could call it LittleBigPlanet.
I was very excited to play the creation aspect of LBPK, because it is 3D. It turned out to be a complete disaster; it's not very friendly to returning LBPers, as well as having tons of BIG problems which made me rage.

Allow me to supplement with a positive one, then.

First off, a lot of people complain about UFG using Modnation Racers as the basis of LBP Karting, as if it's a bad thing. But doing so means they already have the basic framework for the racing gameplay and the creation of terrain and tracks, which is the essence of a karting game. It's brilliant in letting newbies build a basic track to race, and it's been tried and tested for years, so it should be relatively bug free. Starting from scratch would have meant even more bugs in these areas, too.

Of course, the MNR base does bring with it its own create concepts, and that will clash with the LBP paradigm. Sometimes they may even have purposefully moved away from an LBP staple. For instance, people complain about all objects being static by default. Yet if you think about it, it makes sense to have the default be the setting that is least taxing on the thermometer, so that choosing to set to dynamic, with all its thermo-eating implications, becomes a conscious choice. LBP Karting has the opportunity to do away with some of the design choices made in LBP that in hindsight weren't ideal. Just because things are different from the LBP legacy doesn't mean they're bad.

The same thing goes for the control scheme. LBP players will have to adapt to manipulate in 3D no matter what scheme they implement (remember, people complained LBP2 was too different from LBP1 to comprehend, too), so maybe they chose to stick to the MNR layout to draw on their existing fanbase as well. And I doubt it's as easy as you claim to change the scheme to better fit LBP. Like the copy function you bring up; it's tied to L3 IIRC, that button is now used in combination with others for various functions. But if you're convinced, then by all means write up a complete control scheme and get it to UFG, maybe they can add it as an alternative layout. Plenty of games exist with this sort of customization.

And finally I'll add the old but true "this is a beta, you're supposed to find bugs so they can be fixed". If you rage every time the beta isn't doing exactly what you want, maybe you're not really the type of guy to be in a beta? None of these bugs matter if they're fixed in the final game, so to judge the game you need to see through those faults. Which brings me back to my main argument: in stead of focusing on where LBP Karting is lacking compared to LBP2, look at what it offers!

Take away the bugs, the learning curve, the legacy. You have a game that lets you build a basic 3D landscape and race track with ease. Put in the effort and you can build the most amazing fully 3D objects. Its amazingly comprehensive toolset lets you make your world interactive, build your own weapons, customise the HUD, tweak your karts' handling, add new controls and functions to your kart, even substitute a custom object as a kart. You can turn it into Mario Kart, Gran Turismo, WipEout, or venture out into non-racing genres like shooters, maybe even 3D platforming. In essence, this game still offers the karting equivalent to LBP2's platformer: strongly rooted in its original gameplay, but still largely expandable.

This game looks to deliver the promise that Modnation Racers didn't. If they can iron out the bugs, this game will be brilliant!		2012-08-01 12:08:00

Author:
Rogar
Posts: 2284

Ok peeps. Now that the nda has been lifted here is my 3p worth,

Everything that ' ATMLVE' said is essentially correct but here are a few additions

1. Landscape creation : EXACTLY the same system as used in MNR with the same limitations.

2. Stickering objects : This had some MAJOR bugs eg. when placing a sticker on to the side of a cart it also stickers the wheels/tyres
as well and you cannot acuratley position objects on to the cart body, the same problems occur in costume creation as well eg. when stickering a sackboys crash helmet it automatically stickers the visor of the helmet as well. Also there was no option to create your
own photos/stickers included in the beta also there was no paint tool

3. Cart handling: : There was no way of altering the performance of the carts either by swapping parts (different tyres, engines etc, )
or by changing options ( 50cc,150cc or 250cc as in mario cart) the only speed boost available is if you drift or by jetpack pickup
and this is a fixed amount for a set time AND NOT ALTERABLE BY THE CREATOR.
also the controls for the cart steering seemed overly twitchy but at the same time the carts did not seem to have enough steering lock
to get around really tight corners even with drifting.


4. Logic : I did not do too much experimenting with this but it seems to use the same system as LBP/LBP2. Movers are the same but pistons
have changed also there where no connectors ( string,bolts,elastic or chain) included in the beta. The tools seem pretty much the same.


5. Object creation : The 3d create mode is definetly flawed and will need some serious re-work to be user freindly to anyone coming from
LBP/LBP2 as the controls are extremly counter-intuitive as explained in 'ATMLVE' s post. The water level can only be changed as part
of the landscape creation menu (again it's the same as MNR). Any objects created remain floating in mid air even in play mode unless
you use the snap to ground tool (nb. this may be a bug in the beta only) also it is difficult to place objects at ground level without using
the above mentioned tool


6. Menu/Popit : The same as LBP/LBP2.

7. Tutorials : There are video tutorials as in LBP/LBP2 and they are narrated by Stephen Fry, but they need some improvement as they
where very short and allow you to try the thing being explained as they where video only. (hopefully this will be addressed in the full
game)

8. Materials : These are pretty much the same as LBP/LBP2, but the glass materials did not seem to be as transparent as before. And there
is an ice material

This game will need some significant re-working to bring it up to the same level of playability and enjoyment as other lbp games.

Anyone expecting an LBP2 type game will be dissapointed but Anyone expecting MNR with a few extra tools will be happy
sorry to be so negative as I was really looking forward to this game.		2012-08-01 12:09:00

Author:
Unknown User

You're mistaken about the kart handling. They chose to put the control over the speed and handling in the level creators' hands, in stead of the players'. Which makes complete sense to me, as LBP has always done this, and sackboy was only visually tweakable. And I'll add that the games have a very different physics model, too. Probably needed to be simplified to allow for 3D.2012-08-01 12:51:00

Author:
Rogar
Posts: 2284

The beta has officially ended. I am sorry if you did not get in. At the beginning of the beta, there weren't that many good levels. But as time went, the levels got better and better. At one point, however, a user named Kill_the_trolls began spamming the cool pages. He hated the game a lot. And everyone was mad at him because of it. He made 30 copies of a level he made called "This Game sucks so badly". But they then went away after 5 days. I guess he got kicked out because everyone was complaining. Then the beta was getting better community levels. Its sad to see it go. But we all did have a good time.2012-08-01 21:13:00

Author:
1111dav9
Posts: 97

Ok peeps. Now that the nda has been lifted here is my 3p worth,
...

3. Cart handling: : There was no way of altering the performance of the carts either by swapping parts (different tyres, engines etc, )
or by changing options ( 50cc,150cc or 250cc as in mario cart) the only speed boost available is if you drift or by jetpack pickup
and this is a fixed amount for a set time AND NOT ALTERABLE BY THE CREATOR.
also the controls for the cart steering seemed overly twitchy but at the same time the carts did not seem to have enough steering lock
to get around really tight corners even with drifting.

....

There was a "Kart Handling" logic device that you must not have noticed. It was the one with the wrench icon to the left (I think) of the Kartinator & Controlinator devices.
It allows you to completly alter how your crafted Kart (Kart Chassis) handles.
Speed, accelleration, traction, jump height, controllability in air (mid jump) on/off, amount of in-air controllibility, etc....		2012-08-01 23:15:00

Author:
Lord_Vile71
Posts: 60

Was there a way to edit the number of laps it took to end the race? I never really went searching for that. Also, I thought it was annoying that if you went backwards, the game reset you forwards. Was there a way to change that too? Because what if some great minigame requires you to go backwards, but it will never exist because you cant? Or if youre just messing around, having fun? I know that occasionally in LBP, me and my friend start doing stupid stuff the level was never really designed for but have tons of fun with it. Of course, this is all moot if you can tweak that in the first place.2012-08-02 00:21:00

Author:
ATMLVE
Posts: 1177

I haven't seen a specific tweak for going backwards, but IIRC you can tweak bounds checking to stricter, looser, or even completely off. That might also include the backwards reset, but I can't say I tested that.

Yes, lap count is tweakable.		2012-08-02 09:42:00

Author:
Rogar
Posts: 2284

oops sorry i did not notice the cart handling device as i did not delve into the logic /tools menu too much due to work/time constraints
--my bad. :blush:
but i still think that the rest of the game was a disapointment it still feels like MNRv1.5 to me rather than LBP.

I canonly hope that they sort out all of the problems by the release date.		2012-08-02 10:30:00

Author:
Unknown User

My copy of the beta says it's "expired" what's up with that?
EDIT: I'm redownloading it to see if that helps at all.		2012-08-02 11:01:00

Author:
Matimoo
Posts: 1027

My copy of the beta says it's "expired" what's up with that?
EDIT: I'm redownloading it to see if that helps at all.

It had a built in expiration. Now you're just wasting bandwidth.		2012-08-02 11:48:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot
Posts: 6728

It had a built in expiration. Now you're just wasting bandwidth.

Aw that sucks. Ok I shut off the download has it expired for everybody then?		2012-08-02 12:45:00

Author:
Matimoo
Posts: 1027

has it expired for everybody then?

Yes we all had the same expiration time.		2012-08-02 13:01:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot
Posts: 6728

I'd just like to expand upon what ATMLVE said in his post, since I think there a few more flaws that could be mentioned.

On the subject of the grid snap, I think the reason that it is, for lack of a better word, godawful, is because from what I can tell the grid is centred on Sackboy, not aligned to the stage, meaning that if Sackboy moves, the grid moves with him. It's either that, or the grid is focused on the created object, in which case the grid is even MORE broken.

I also had some issues with the racing aspect of the game, surprisingly.

As someone has said before (not entirely sure where,) the default powerups used in the story levels have far too much of an impact on the race. For this, I'm going to use the obvious comparison of Mario Kart. Let's say that you were to be hit by a shell that was orbiting a player. You'd spin out, losing control for about a second, and then carry on as normal. This doesn't affect the race so much, and will probably only lower your place by one or two.While there is a penalty for being hit by the weapon, it isn't so big that it is considered to be unfair.

In LBPK, the penalty IS big and it IS unfair. In LBPK, if you were to be hit by what I'm going to call an electrical charge (a close range weapon, similar to orbiting shells in Mario Kart,) you first play the "getting electrocuted " animation, then you pop, then you return to the nearest checkpoint, and only then can you re-enter the race. This process takes at least three or four seconds (you can see it relatively near the beginning of this video, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-ntd2bF0qg)) and because you return to the race with no speed at all, you often get booted to the very back of the pack, even if you were in first place when you were hit! Because of this, races are more often than not decided on what powerup a certain player got rather than skill.

Another thing that I found about the powerups is that, at a glance, it is hard to tell exactly what you're carrying. Again, I'm going to compare it to Mario Kart. If you pick up a weapon, even if it's your first time playing, you will be able to know it is because of the nice, clear image of the weapon taking up a large portion of the screen, while still being unobtrusive. In LBPK, the weapon thumbnails are represented by weapon type, not what the weapon actually is. For example, defensive weapons are shown with a green background, so they're easily identified as a defensive weapon. The actual image of the weapon could not be more ambiguous, however. Many of the defensive weapons are represented by skulls, but it is nigh impossible to tell what weapon you have because, at a glance, they all appear to be the same thing. This lead to many an occasion where I deployed bombs instead of the electrical charge I was expecting.

Most of my other problems have already been mentioned, so I guess I won't be putting them here. I also know that I probably won't be buying this game. Even if it is "just a beta" I feel that many of the flaws are either too big to be fixed, or even intended by the developers.		2012-08-02 20:38:00

Author:
FlipMeister
Posts: 631

Thats the problem with this game, its not just bugs from the beta that theyll squash out, its the actual programming of the game. If you fix the grid, angle snap, and the z plane and add a corner editor, Ill be much happier; but unfortunately for me and those that agree with me, their objective is not to please me. For something like the grid, it arguably is the most basic and one of the most useful tools in all of LittleBigPlanet, and has been since the beginning. Basically, its an incredibly useful and used tool. And because of that, it is logically ridiculous to assume that its issues are bugs, because if it was unintentional someone would have long noticed by now. You can say the same thing for the angle snap, and the z plane problem I addressed in my post on the last page. Its just illogical to think that these are unintentional; they make creating an incredible pain, which is why I believe the story levels we played were created with large assistance from a computer, and why I wonder whos running things over at LBPK headquarters.

Something else Id just like to put in, hopefully in case someone whos actually involved with the games production is reading our posts(it would be rather unprofessional if they werent, I think) and is saying this point, is that you could argue with some of the issues I and other people brought up by saying that its supposed to welcome in MNR players as well, I know someone said that here. But the thing is, sackboy is the only playable character, and all of the materials and tools, and popit and score bubbles, and the pod and the planets and everything is all exactly like it is in LBP. The game is even called LittleBigPlanet Karting! Not LittleBigPlanet Racers(its not ModNation Karting after all), not ModNationPlanet, there is barely a shred of similarities between the normal LBP and LBPK; everything is just SO much LBP. The only part that isnt LBP is the track creation and terrain editors which I will say are cool, the 3D aspect thats garbage, and the fact that creating anything even semi complex is a pain. Son, I am disappoint.		2012-08-02 23:42:00

Author:
ATMLVE
Posts: 1177

because if it was unintentional someone would have long noticed by now.Perhaps that's why they sought out involvement from the community by hosting a beta - to help notice things things like that. Just a thought.




You can say the same thing for the angle snap, and the z plane problem I addressed in my post on the last page. Its just illogical to think that these are unintentional; they make creating an incredible pain, which is why I believe the story levels we played were created with large assistance from a computerI had absolutely none of the problems you describe. You do realize that you can turn off grid and angle snap, right? I toggle back and forth constantly in all other versions of the game, and it worked just fine in this one too. 		2012-08-02 23:52:00

Author:
Taffey
Posts: 3187

Taffey, just bottle that optimism and send it to me in the post 2012-08-03 00:31:00

Author:
GribbleGrunger
Posts: 3910

For something like the grid, it arguably is the most basic and one of the most useful tools in all of LittleBigPlanet, and has been since the beginning. Basically, its an incredibly useful and used tool. And because of that, it is logically ridiculous to assume that its issues are bugs, because if it was unintentional someone would have long noticed by now.

I vaguely remember the original LBP initially having a similar shifting grid, and did it even start with an angle snap? I don't use that enough to remember, I guess.

Still, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that these [i]are[/] bugs. Just noticing something doesn't mean it's immediately fixed. Software teams usually have a big backlog of bugs and desired features, and at some point they had to draw a line and build a beta out of it. Some of these issues might even already be resolved in their current build. So while it's good to let them know what you don't like about the beta, it's rather pointless to assume they won't listen or won't fix things at all. Let's just wait for the final game, why don't we?

Funny how GribbleGrunger and I seem to have swapped places... 		2012-08-03 00:55:00

Author:
Rogar
Posts: 2284

I vaguely remember the original LBP initially having a similar shifting grid, and did it even start with an angle snap? I don't use that enough to remember, I guess.
I never said the angle snap is in LBP1, and you probably dont use it much because the only LBP2 level you have is a contraption challenge.


Perhaps that's why they sought out involvement from the community by hosting a beta - to help notice things things like that. Just a thought.
Yes, but I feel a broken grid and angle snap are some things that, after months of working on the game, would be rather easily noticed. I know that there is no way at all that the cosmos level in the beta was done without them using at least the grid.


I had absolutely none of the problems you describe. You do realize that you can turn off grid and angle snap, right? I toggle back and forth constantly in all other versions of the game, and it worked just fine in this one too.

Yes, and you attended the game jam, which either means they released a different version of the beta than the game jam, or you just didnt do any of the stuff required to notice these issues, which is obviously out of the question because you were there all week, you couldnt have not noticed these issues. And you just said yourself, you didnt have any of these issues, which means you did the things I did to experience them, so, as I said above, if you did the things required to find these bugs within the time span of a week, its impossible that no one working on the game would have noticed these problems. Because they were fixed for you, thats out of the question anyway...

And of course you can turn that stuff off; you have to turn it on in the first place.

Ok, so heres my deduction: the beta we got was a different version of the game than what the developers have been using, because Taffey did the things required to notice these issues, and didnt experience them. So the people at LBPK headquarters gave out a crappy beta, which Im not sure why they did... But they at least made sure that the game jam attendees had the good version of the game so that theyd write about and tell everyone how great it was. The game jam happened before the beta right? You game jammers arent just some time travelers?		2012-08-03 01:22:00

Author:
ATMLVE
Posts: 1177

Ok, so heres my deduction: the beta we got was a different version of the game than what the developers have been using, because Taffey did the things required to notice these issues, and didnt experience them. So the people at LBPK headquarters gave out a crappy beta, which Im not sure why they did... But they at least made sure that the game jam attendees had the good version of the game so that theyd write about and tell everyone how great it was. The game jam happened before the beta right? You game jammers arent just some time travelers?Deep breath. Everything is going to be ok.

We played an earlier build of the beta - it actually said "public beta" and had the same intro disclaimer as the beta version. Essentially the same exact game only with some code updates as compared to the jam version.

I definitely can't rule out the fact that you must have used the toolset in a way that I did not, thus the discrepancy in our experiences. I'll just chalk it up to that. 		2012-08-03 01:32:00

Author:
Taffey
Posts: 3187

Deep breath. Everything is going to be ok. We played an earlier build of the beta - it actually said "public beta" and had the same intro disclaimer as the beta version. Essentially the same exact game only with some code updates as compared to the jam version.

I definitely can't rule out the fact that you must have used the toolset in a way that I did not, thus the discrepancy in our experiences. I'll just chalk it up to that.
Heeeeeeep... Hooooooo...

Well yeah but common, dont tell me you didnt use the grid a ton of times, or the angle snap. Within a week of creating, you had to do something I did too.		2012-08-03 01:47:00

Author:
ATMLVE
Posts: 1177

I only got to play the BETA for 2 days. But when I did play it, I was liek


http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/008/491/dafuq.jpg		2012-08-03 05:22:00

Author:
DominationMags
Posts: 1840

Heeeeeeep... Hooooooo...

Well yeah but common, dont tell me you didnt use the grid a ton of times, or the angle snap. Within a week of creating, you had to do something I did too.Hehe Well maybe it was the way I was using those tools. I tend to turn them on briefly to align things and/or straighten them out and then turn them off immediately afterwards. I did find them a little wonky when I left them on, but no different than those same tools in all the other LBP games.		2012-08-03 07:29:00

Author:
Taffey
Posts: 3187

I only got to play the BETA for 2 days. But when I did play it, I was liek


http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/008/491/dafuq.jpg
LOL. i got the beta around 11PM July 10th. i was like that at first. but when i figured out that on literally every turn you should drift. i got 1st or 2nd place on all 6 races.

EDIT: Also, for the people wondering when there going to get Beta vests. the Exclusive beta test vest will be sent out to the email names THAT HAVE RECEIVED the code for the LittleBigPlanet Karting Public Beta shortly after the release of LittleBigPlanet Karting. The Vest has been confirmed but it has not been confirmed if there will be 2 versions of the vest for LittleBigPlanet 2 and LittleBigPlanet Karting.		2012-08-03 23:17:00

Author:
TinyMoMo
Posts: 132

Hehe Well maybe it was the way I was using those tools. I tend to turn them on briefly to align things and/or straighten them out and then turn them off immediately afterwards. I did find them a little wonky when I left them on, but no different than those same tools in all the other LBP games.

That's basically how I used them, as well. The grid was great for tilting to a specific angle, but the grid size was too big to be effective for much else.		2012-08-04 01:07:00

Author:
ArgorokX
Posts: 5

Did the beta end? It suddenly disappeared from my game list and download list.2012-08-04 20:26:00

Author:
gdn001
Posts: 5891

Did the beta end? It suddenly disappeared from my game list and download list.

It ended.		2012-08-04 20:33:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot
Posts: 6728

It ended.
Barely played it.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xmZsUVge7V0/T50Uvc_j6mI/AAAAAAAAAtg/ORjx_aSpmP8/s1600/DAFUQ.jpg		2012-08-04 20:42:00

Author:
gdn001
Posts: 5891

Barely played it.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xmZsUVge7V0/T50Uvc_j6mI/AAAAAAAAAtg/ORjx_aSpmP8/s1600/DAFUQ.jpg
Only got to play for a few hours... I know that feel bro.

http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/large/sad-i-know-that-feel-clean-l.png		2012-08-05 00:06:00

Author:
chinook3
Posts: 453

Barely played it.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xmZsUVge7V0/T50Uvc_j6mI/AAAAAAAAAtg/ORjx_aSpmP8/s1600/DAFUQ.jpg

All because of me :kz:		2012-08-05 01:25:00

Author:
DominationMags
Posts: 1840

Only got to play for a few hours... I know that feel bro.

http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/large/sad-i-know-that-feel-clean-l.png

I barely played it because I didnt want to 		2012-08-05 04:51:00

Author:
ATMLVE
Posts: 1177

Well if anyone wants it I got the picture used on the XMB of the beta, & uploaded it to a site that doesn't lower the image quality
Here it is (http://h9.abload.de/img/pic19pagi.png) I posted it on the private forums talking about the sardine can and the date on it, but apparently it meant nothing...		2012-08-05 07:01:00

Author:
lve_msg
Posts: 408


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